The Consensus Between The Higher Self And The Shadow Self (1 Viewer)

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KarlaSM

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KarlaSM submitted a new transients.info article.

The Consensus Between The Higher Self And The Shadow Self



"Many of you have a fear innate of what might be lurking in the darkness, what might be moving among the shadows, or perhaps waiting in stillness with them, unseen, black. We understand what is happening in these shadows, for we have seen them. Our eyesight has been trained and eons of immersion in the evolution of galactic humanity have given us a keen insight into what is hidden in some of the lesser-seen vibrations of light.

What is in the shadows, dear ones, is a function of the shadows. It is a function of light which has slowed down so that it can experience love more intimately in a place and mode of temporality in which light of a higher frequency is unable to pierce without changing it. Within the shadows is an intelligence, dear ones, and there is movement — very...
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Out of Time

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It is hard for me to fully agree with Anica, and I believe it comes from the fact that I am a much younger soul. Maybe when it comes to specific examples it would be easier to me.

I believe that if I choose to try a dark incarnation (which I quite honestly have done, more or less) it would be to try to make it less dark than anybody who would play that role. As a whole, I believe that the experience is not worth the traumas created by it. The light warrior aspect of me is not happy with people willingly embracing the dark, it seems to me like sabotaging the efforts of so many to bring peace. And it is Anica's very own people who are among the ones trying very hard. There may be different schools of thought among the humans of Temmer, what if it is just one of them?

Reading between the lines, I see a message of loving the divine even in the darkest creatures, one of forgiveness and bringing to peace. This is what I really love.

And I disagree with Jung. Light does not need darkness to define it. Well, I guess it can lead to a more profound understanding of it :)

Blessings, sis, you are doing a great job with those articles. I hope you are doing well.
 
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KarlaSM

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Thank you my bro! I appreciate your comments very much. :)

You have a point about Jung, I think that what darkness does is that it allows in some ways for the light to gain more wisdom and compassion so it just adds a new meaning to it, but not that it defines it because light in itself is always light.

About the worth of dark experiences, I would say that only our soul can have a word about it because as human beings we are just one part of our soul that is still growing in many ways, so our perspective is still limited. However, the part that I do agree and dislike is the part for example about torture and painful death. I personally do not make peace with that yet, just to think about it I feel awful.

But in the end...the big problem we face as human beings is to know that everyone who has done hurtful things do them out of their own hurt, and we reach the point in which it is futile to blame. It is in that point that is like a death end, in which something has to be done to break that cycle of suffering. So when we embrace our darkness what we do is simply that we internalize the pain in one way or another and do not attack anymore, we find ways to accept the past, without the need to perpetuate the pain. It is a lengthy process though and eventually we all find the best ways to do this. The road to peace is always there, shining in front of us.
 

Out of Time

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I believe I have a problem understanding what it means to embrace the pain. The expression is kind of confusing because pain causes separation (from source)... I guess I would call what you described "allowing love and understanding to heal the wound." :)

Lol, there is another term that has been giving me trouble accepting - "annihilation of self." I see it more like "remembering who you really are."

That understanding of how shadow works is only acceptable to me under the condition of not accepting that it is okay.

However, there is an exception to that and I think I should mention it. It is a case in which a soul willingly asks to be victim to another. In the example I am thinking of, that soul was betrayed and part of the healing procedure involved being betrayed again by somebody trusted (on a soul level) in order to receive better understanding of it in a controlled environment. I hope what I say makes sense.

All this playing with darkness was supposed to be natural and controlled. However, it appears it got well beyond what it was supposed to be. I would really recommend extreme caution to anybody willingly going there.
 
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KarlaSM

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My bro I like very much your own understanding of how darkness is then understood within oneself. I love the way you express yourself. Just like in the article, I cannot agree either with the idea of annihilation of self because then there would be no purpose in experiencing individuality and personality traits at all, we simply would not be here. That is a very destructive way of thinking about oneself.

As you know I was one who took things to the extreme in so many lifetimes and now the consequences are such a lengthy process of reintegration of these aspects of the soul and facing these aspects with the need to see beyond a lot of fear.

So your notion of accepting love and healing is basically the same as embracing darkness because when we think about it, no one in this world will accept us more than ourselves, and no one will understand us more than ourselves, so we need to be the ones to truly listen and understand all parts of ourselves, even if we have support from others. But all forms of support will be to a certain degree limited in contrast to how it is to open up to ourselves, and to welcome these parts of us with an open heart.

The process of healing is not always so painful, but sometimes we do need to allow feelings to flow, and to remember with new eyes that which we tried to forget. But it becomes easier over time, as we grow stronger and we feed ourselves with the love of our soul. :)
 

Hailstones Melt

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But in the end...the big problem we face as human beings is to know that everyone who has done hurtful things do them out of their own hurt, and we reach the point in which it is futile to blame. It is in that point that is like a death end, in which something has to be done to break that cycle of suffering. So when we embrace our darkness what we do is simply that we internalize the pain in one way or another and do not attack anymore, we find ways to accept the past, without the need to perpetuate the pain. It is a lengthy process though and eventually we all find the best ways to do this. The road to peace is always there, shining in front of us.
This is the most compassionate post I've ever seen on this forum - one that should be highlighted in news reports the world over - so that people like the Jews and Palestinians can stop perpetrating out of their own deep wells of hurt - and whites and aborigines can stop it too.

Because blame is just a prop of the same old game.
 

Lorna Wilson

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Forgive me if I've shared this insightful article elsewhere. It is about how we can aim for 'good' in our current lives as a result of learning otherwise previously. The content is something that I find showing up in confirmation during past life regression sessions. W experience all angles of each 'teaching' as the only way we will ever KNOW anything as opposed to believing a thing to be true.

Coming Back Bad: Reincarnation of the Infamous


Accepting and understanding reincarnation very quickly solves a number of sticky philosophical points that throw huge monkey wrenches into both materialistic and traditionally religious doctrine. However, the existence of bad people--especially, those who rise (or sink) to a level of historical infamy--poses a standing challenge even to reincarnation. Reincarnationists will tell you, for example, that people in the afterlife, having a grander perspective, choose to come back in this or that circumstance. But why would someone choose to incarnate as a bad person achieving historical notoriety? In the long incarnational process, who are these people and why do they show us the worst of human nature? Clearly, they provide society with examples of what not to do, driving moral lessons home to the mass consciousness as no preaching or exhortation can do. But how do they get that way?

First of all, we see that such a person has developed in a lopsided manner. Typically, he is highly intelligent, charming, attractive and with great personal magnetism. This is no accident. He has developed this power over his past incarnations, based on his beliefs and assumptions about life, which operate at a deep level. But he has neglected the development of compassion and responsibility. So he is manifesting a high degree of certain attributes, but a low degree of others.

Let's stop for a moment to introduce the acid test. The acid test is to use a highly spiritually advanced person as a measuring stick. Such a person is manifesting all the attributes, however opposite they may seem, to an advanced degree simultaneously and in harmony with each other. Jesus, for example, had great power, but also was very gentle and had great compassion. From the Biblical accounts, he had tremendous charm and charisma, and people were drawn to him. But he lived entirely for the benefit of others and never took advantage of anyone.

Now, back to the sociopath. This person has developed charm and magnetism, and uses it to exploit others. There may be some very basic underlying philosophical assumption (analogous to the momentous childhood decisions driving "personal scripts" that are uncovered in psychotherapy, but extending across incarnations) that he has bought into many lifetimes back, permitting this lopsided development, such as, "If you don't look after your own interests, nobody else will." You hear these pithy philosophical "sound bites" all the time. They sound innocuous--but they are like train tracks that have been diverted into a ravine. They are hardly innocuous, which I think is the original reason that those who tried to preserve the integrity of Christianity were so concerned about heresies. Unfortunately, that effort got taken over by people who had not developed enough compassion.

Which brings up an interesting point. Swami Vivekananda, speaking of efforts at social reform, said that the world is like a dog's curly tail--straighten it out and it curls back up again. He also said that criticism as a means of promoting change has been tried for centuries, and it doesn't work.

So here we have two basic assumptions that occasionally drive people, perhaps over a number of lifetimes, to a place they never intended--that of becoming a cruel revolutionary, with the justification that they are doing good. They want to reform society, and they start out by criticizing it. They harbor two very deeply-rooted assumptions: 1) that it is possible to reform the world permanently, and 2) that by pointing out people's errors, the recipients will be grateful and will change.

This is how irrational some of our assumptions are--if you look at these two in the light of day, it's obvious that they are in error. But because such assumptions are usually buried and never seriously questioned, there has been a veritable parade of infamous people throughout history who have acted them out!


full article:
http://www.ial.goldthread.com/coming_back_bad.html
 
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KarlaSM

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Hailstones, thank you so much!! I hope that more and more we can reach this point of self empowerment to stand strong in our integrity and stop that cycle of hurting each other. :)

Lorna, excellent contribution! I remember reading it in other board, indeed you posted it before and I really like these kinds of articles you share with us. This brings to my memory this very same situation described in this article, about negative incarnations and how they affect the psyche over lifetimes. Here is the short story:

I was shown that in many negative incarnations I worked with a group of friends and we had ideals for the development of certain communities. Just as mentioned in the article, it all started with a good intention, on how to use resources and skills to bring about prosperity. However, we carried certain wounds, there was no balance between each other and what was in the beginning little misunderstandings, communication problems and then over time things escalated in such a way that we became so resentful, that we ended in such a vicious cycle of attacking each other and affecting others along the way...our initial ideas ended up in disaster in those particular communities. It was always about a good intention, and history is so full of those examples, like World War II. It was all about an ideal of prosperity...that turned into a nightmare.
 
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Out of Time

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There is another point to be made when talking about ending the circle of suffering - souls should just stop agreeing or seeking to play the role of victims. I really dislike the point of view according to which higher selves are organizing all the madness just for the sake of experience. I think what we are having here can be classified as a school, but there is real danger for things to go really badly, so I really hope this can be seen from the super high dimensions.
 
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KarlaSM

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Omg no wonder why a lot of people often say that we should consider graduating soon. Shall we start preparing our documents? How much will the degree cost? :))
 

Stargazer

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There is another point to be made when talking about ending the circle of suffering - souls should just stop agreeing or seeking to play the role of victims. I really dislike the point of view according to which higher selves are organizing all the madness just for the sake of experience.
I can still see, however, that some may not be ready to move on...for many reasons. They may still need more time in a 3D environment, either to learn or experience more. They may wish to spend more time mastering the challenges in this density. There may also be some who actually enjoy working at this level, too.

The thing is, I have a feeling that there are more than enough timelines and realities for everyone to experience what they need! Simply "follow your bliss" and align yourself with the creation you most resonate with...as a Divine, Sovereign Being, you can make that choice for yourself. Don't let anyone else's choices hold you back from what you wish to experience or create. :)
 

Out of Time

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KarlaSM , I believe the real party will start when we get there :)

Stargazer , what you say is right, but with the molten pot we have here, the collective choices may be quite different from the ones of the individuals and that sucks.

According to what I've read, just before the shift the people who want to remain in 3d will be somehow transferred to another 3d world and then the shift to 4d would happen. Otherwise, I don't see it happening.
 
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Stargazer

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KarlaSM , I believe the real party will start when we get there :)

Stargazer , what you say is right, but with the molten pot we have here, the collective choices may be quite different from the ones of the individuals and that sucks.

According to what I've read, just before the shift the people who want to remain in 3d will be somehow transferred to another 3d world and then the shift to 4d would happen. Otherwise, I don't see it happening.
I've read much the same and no matter how you slice it, it's a fascinating mystery! :)

I love what you said here and it really resonates with me:

I think we are done here but decided to give it one more lap because of the epic shift to 4d that is expected to take place. And then we go home.
I know there may be a lot of resistance to some of these thoughts, but I ask myself questions about things like this all the time:

What if the whole collective choice "story" is something that was invented as another limitation to keep us from realizing and stepping into our own True Power as Creators?

What do I feel is my True and Highest Purpose here?

If we really are "volunteers" and specifically here for this shift (as I believe many are), are we doing all we can to help things along?
If we truly are here for this purpose, my feeling is that we didn't come here to "bunt", "single", or hit a "sacrifice fly" (to use a baseball analogy). We came here to swing for the fences. We're here to step up to the plate like Babe Ruth, point to the sky beyond the ball park walls, and swing like we've never swung before. We may not all be able to hit a home run, but some of us will. And that may be all that's needed to "win the game", so to speak.

If we feel our True and Highest Purpose is to help manifest positive change for this shift, then we are doing this for those who want to go along--for those who are ready to evolve. Every soul will find its own path and some may choose not to go along...and that's perfectly OK too. My feeling is that all will eventually make it...each at his or her own pace and according to his or her own choice.

And now I'll ask you my final questions, Slayer.

At your deepest level...somewhere in that place deep within your heart, what do YOU want?

If you could create or express or align yourself with ANY possibility, what would it be? What would that future "Now" look like?

And that, my friend, may very well be exactly what you came here to do.

Appearances, global events, and collective intentions aside, you came here to be, do, or experience something. Whatever it is, that is YOUR unique contribution and creation.

Please promise me you won't let anyone or any thing limit you or keep you from achieving that dream!

<3
 
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Out of Time

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Stargazer , thank you very much for that effort to inspire me and bring me back to what I came to do. But I guess the answers would be nothing like what you might expect.

I am here this time mainly because I am too stubborn to quit. This is one of the traits I have had ever since I came here.

Honestly, my deepest wish is to be reunited with my star family and just live in a normal human society without the BS I encounter daily. Unlike most of the people physically around me, I generally know what it means to live in freedom. No need to worry about losing your job, having enough money for the things you want or need, worrying about being overweight. Things like that. Your loved ones are far away, no problem, just use a flying saucer. I really don't understand why some people here are so obsessed with cars. Even the most luxurious ones available nowadays suck when compared to a simple vintage WWII flying disc (I think).

I wouldn't like to say that it is exactly paradise because there is still work to be done (it is a service-to-others society), and just like here, there can be friction where points meet. There are also rules to follow. And yet, it must be much better than working for a planetary 3d company.
 
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KarlaSM

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Omg tell me about car obsession...where I live a lot of people buy the largest cars, they are the size of two or three saucers...something difficult to understand. :O
 

Stargazer

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Stargazer , thank you very much for that effort to inspire me and bring me back to what I came to do. But I guess the answers would be nothing like what you might expect.
Good! Since the answers are different, then they must be uniquely and beautifully yours. I would hope for nothing less!

I am here this time mainly because I am too stubborn to quit. This is one of the traits I have had ever since I came here.
Also, good. Something tells me we're all going to need a little bit of "stubborn" to see us through (as well as a bit of "flexible" if stubborn isn't working). :D

Honestly, my deepest wish is to be reunited with my star family and just live in a normal human society without the BS I encounter daily. Unlike most of the people physically around me, I generally know what it means to live in freedom. No need to worry about losing your job, having enough money for the things you want or need, worrying about being overweight. Things like that. Your loved ones are far away, no problem, just use a flying saucer. I really don't understand why some people here are so obsessed with cars. Even the most luxurious ones available nowadays suck when compared to a simple vintage WWII flying disc (I think).

I wouldn't like to say that it is exactly paradise because there is still work to be done (it is a service-to-others society), and just like here, there can be friction where points meet. There are also rules to follow. And yet, it must be much better than working for a planetary 3d company.
LOL...People have grown rather attached to their rides. It might be tough (and rather useless) to mount 22" spinning rims on a flying saucer. MP3 player and a subwoofer, no problem! :D

I think I'm even beyond the flying saucer. I'd like to be able to fly (or float, to be more accurate) everywhere...just by pure consciousness. No cars or saucers, no jet packs, no magic carpets, no walking necessary. Just a very light and energetic physical body. I could hover in place anywhere I wanted just to watch a perfect sunrise or float leisurely among the clouds and treetops. Or, if I needed to, instantly teleport somewhere!

Every action or accomplishment begins with a dream, a feeling, or a thought. My feeling is that the less we limit these and the more we believe in our own Worth and Power, the more we can accomplish...as individuals and especially as a collective.

So someday when you're scooting around in your saucer, please drop me a telepathic invite...I'd love to join you for a bit of an aerial "road trip"!

;)
 

Golmona

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Dear KarlaSM thank you for your article. I have read it a couple of times and allowed some time in between to let the content sink in. Somehow I feel like what am about to ask is already answered somewhere in the article or in the comments above (Lorna Wilson) but am having a hard time grasping it. So please forgive me if you're about to repeat yourself.

You wrote:
"in order to reach realization of the I AM or the Self, what we have labeled as the negative traits of the personality are NOT to be rejected, hidden, discredited or suppressed in any way. Instead, they are to be observed, along with the positive traits, reach the understanding that ALL traits make up the personality as a whole, which is in itself, the creation or an imagined projection of the Self, which is whole and casts no judgment on itself or in any of its imagined projections in a 3rd dimenstional reality."

However, what is really hard for me to accept is certain negative traits of the personality in action, such as child pedophilia and murder (recent pizzagate revelations are extremely hard for me to process). I cannot understand how we are not to pass judgement on such acts and how this can be part of our personality as a whole. I can understand that given the right context and conditions, anyone could be a killer (see the Milgram experiment), but how are we not to pass judgement if at some point a decision is to be made to break the cycle of hurting (because of our own hurt).

Is it really just as simple as souls choosing to "experience all angles of each 'teaching' as the only way we will ever KNOW anything as opposed to believing a thing to be true."? How can this be reconciled with baby pedophilia and murder for entertainment?

Another question that came up for me was about something I read which am not even sure to be true. It was about the illuminati believing that the only way to enlightenment is to walk both paths: the good and the bad, fully and completely, meaning living the christian life as well as the satanic life completely. This to me sounds like one interpretation of the quote I started off with in my comment. What is your take on this?
 
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Lorna Wilson

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Hello Golmona, Thank you, beautiful soul for pulling me back into this dialogue. I've been absent from the site for a while. Can I first make the disclaimer that I do not have all the answers and may even have none as my thoughts and learning are always evolving. I can share what I understand to date though and hope that you find some insight within or at least have some thought stimulus.

Having been a fly on the wall with many clients as they access past lives or their interlife reviews, there is never any judgement about their experiences even when they entail things that shock our conscious mind. Murders, rapes, incest, gross abuses occur from the level of consciousness that the person is experiencing so until they know better they cannot choose better. When no longer encased within the flesh and going back into spirit they always see that they could have made other choices that they were unable to see at the time because of the ego filters and programs running. They usually discover that it is members of their own loving soul group/friends that have been playing out roles of victim/vengeance with them. Such things are of the lower chakras and I suspect as we evolve in consciousness we move up the vibratory chakra scales of love and unity and away from the base reptilian r complex brain.

If we begin with the premise that 'ALL life stems from an infinite Oneness/Source', then by default we have to eventually accept that all includes everything no matter how the conscious mind wants to label or create divisions of acceptability. Therefore at different frequencies there are various experiences to be felt, understood, and accepted as one ultimate source of being. We cannot believe/know Oneness but reject some of It. Rejection of Self sets the motion in place for experiencing, reconciliation, and integration into the whole. I wrote my perception of our fall in consciousness in a blog in 2011

Unfortunately there's a lot of abuse of power that needs to be learned, experienced and resolved on the path of discovering selflessness and service to others. We must at some point learn self responsibility of our creative forces to maneuver in the higher dimensions otherwise we will manifest confusion, actually I'd go so far as to say that we couldn't hold such higher frequencies if we are not a vibrational match for those environments. We have a long history within our earth cycles of such abuses against others and self. The dark ages of Atlantis saw the same atrocities as pizzagate and satanic rituals. Dr Shankuntala Modi writes about her discoveries through the subconscious minds of her patients in An Amazing Human Journey: Remembering from the Subconscious Mind. The other thing I will say about those in power that seek it from external sources they will create chaos magic not realizing that true magic is our birthright but is created inwards by our vibration as our bodies are really alchemical biological structures. I can share more about that if you like.

If you are having difficulty accepting or processing such detestable things I would suggest that some self exploration may be insightful to discover the resonant source of your discomfort. Such things unfortunately are very much a part of our collective consciousness otherwise they would not exist, but that doesn't mean that we must turn a blind eye or not help light the path of darkness that some of us choose to walk or experience. Passing judgement can also be a way to get hooked indirectly to the same energy that we say we would like to reject, as all judgment amounts to some form of separation and division that creates the need for us to experience such beliefs whether we like it or not.

At this transitional time in our earth cycle such things serves a purpose in helping us all see what is within us. It's a bit like how Dr Len Hew cured his patients by healing that within himself that was in them using Ho'oponopono. How Dr. Hew Len healed a ward of mentally ill criminals with Ho'oponopono

Paramahansa Yogananda explains the concept of evil in his description of Life Is A Dream like a movie. This is some of what he says, but there is much more on the link:

Some say that God (consciousness) doesn't know evil, because they can't explain why a God who is good allows robberies, murders, disease, poverty, and other terrible happenings that are going on constantly on this earth. And yet, evil provides the contrast that enables us to recognize and experience goodness. Evil had to be, if there was to be any creation. If you wrote a message with white chalk on a white board, no one would see it.

There is another angle about duality, or good and evil that I want to explain to you. If a movie producer made movies only of angels (of only goodness), and showed them in the movie theatres morning, noon, and night everyday, he would soon have to close up his business. He (the producer) has to produce variety in orderto attract people's attention.

The bad man makes the hero look so much better! And we like plots that are filled with action. We don't mind looking at exciting movies about danger and disaster, because we know they are only movies (a mere appearance on a screen). If you could see what is going on behind the screen of this life, you wouldn't suffer at all. Life is a cosmic movie (projected within the screen of consciousness). I look at the beam of God's light, which is projecting these scenes on the screen of life (consciousness). I see the pictures of the whole universe coming from this beam.

Another time I was sitting in a movie theatre watching a movie on a screen. And then I looked into the projection booth. I saw that the projectionist was not interested in the movie, because he has seen it over and over again. Instead, he was reading a book. The projector was doing its job: there was the sound, and the beam of light was casting realistic images on the screen. And there was the audience caught up in the drama.

From age to age, from civilization to civilization, the same old movies are shown over and over again, only with different characters playing the parts. When I took my gaze from the light of the projector and looked at the audience in the movie theatre, I saw that they were going through all the emotions of the actors in the movie. They were suffering with the hero, and reacting to the evil of the villain. To the audience it was a tragic experience. To the operator in the projection booth, it was only a movie! And so it is with God. He has created (imagined) movies of light and shadows, the hero and the villain, good and evil, and we are the audience and the actors.

It is only because we identify with the play too much (as being real) that we are in trouble. Without shadows as well as light (contrasts) there could be no picture. Evil is the shadow that converts the one beam of God's light into pictures or forms. Therefore, evil (contrasting with good) is the shadow of God that makes this play possible. The dark shadows of evil are mixed with the pure white beam of the virtues of God. He wants you not to take these pictures so seriously.


full article: http://www.theself.com/lifeisadream_yogananda.cfm

France Toews is a victim of Satanic Ritual Abuse who has made some amazing discoveries about the manipulation of consciousness. Her video is a worthwhile listen.

 
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KarlaSM

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Hello dear Golmona many times I have been asked this question. However we must understand that in our current timeline we are not those atrocities that we see.

What I intend to explain is that only we are responsible for our own negative aspects and that does not mean that we have to love pedophiles, negative reptilians or the kinds of satanists that murder children in our present time.

At some point those people will incarnate into more positive individuals and will have to face at some point the reason why they did those things.

Only we can accept our own negative aspects and perhaps gain a greater understanding of those who do atrocities.

I have some reptilian aspects and one in particular told me that she is coming to help me balance lots of things and to overcome my fears of bloody stuff in this world. It does not mean that I have to love or accept what currently happens but what she says is that I can understand her culture of the past during the Lyran-Draco wars and understand that I am different to what she was.

She is very large with serpent and dragon DNA and she says that I am not ready to see all that she is and her culture but that slowly over time through me she will balance her two hearts. (Some dracos have two hearts)

I see then that if I have a difficult ancient reptilian past life, only I can embrace her and accept her, but that does not mean that I am forced to love the outer circumstances but I can detach from them because I have no control over what happens in my outer reality, except for direct involvement with some people.

Only I can love my own aspects and learn compassion and teach them the compassion that they could not have in their timelines. One night I was crying about lots of things and my draco was sitting within me feeling bad saying she could not speak to me because she had never felt before such sadness like what I was experiencing.

Besides, talking to some reptilian and vampire beings they showed to me how painful their programming is. I talked to some who are no longer involved in such things, but for example inside the wounding of the ones who do atrocities we must understand that their wounds accumulate throughout their own history in such a way that they reach extreme dark incarnations before they can start going back to the light and that includes their own children being murdered, so anger and pain accumulate to reach the point of not even being able to access their pain and also some of these people have a DNA factor that comes from ancient bat species that gave rise to what we call vampires.

It does not mean that someone who has vampire aspects will stay like that forever but that for example if at some point a vampire decided to incarnate as human beings, then they can learn to eat cooked meat and drink red wine and it is how species evolve over time.

Nothing stays evil forever,each soul grows at their own level and another thing is that the collective finds these atrocities undesirable and the more people demand that these things stop, the less we will have collectively these bloody incidents. But if those things are out of our reach we can only accept what is negative within our souls and work through our own pains and issues and aspects, but we have no control over the outer and there is nothing to do but detach.

Another thing about the path of badness is that it also has to do with evolution. We cannot judge bloody animals right? This is something I already mentioned to other people who asked me about these extreme paths of violence in humans. If animals kill for survival and are not aware of the pain of their preys, people think it is all good with them and it is justifiable but personally just as much as I dislike murder and violence I do not like these expressions in animal world either. So the judgement is then the same but it is something that we cannot modify, we cannot send animals to prisons lol.

But there are indeed authorities that can send murderers to prisons, however if you ask me, I do not agree that a criminal should be tortured, because that only perpetuates the cycles of suffering even further. So we must act in higher and higher ways to step out of suffering and unfortunately in spiritual communities I see a huge desire in people for criminals to be tortured and murdered and that is something we can start with.

If within us there is the desire for severe punishment, we can go deep within and cry our pains and embrace them and understand them, instead of sending our anger to the outer and propagate negativity like what lots of conspiracy theorists do. They spread more fear and hate than compassion.

Only with detachment and no longer having the desire to harm others we can slowly start coming out of our collective darkness. :)
 
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Stargazer

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Brilliant discussion and welcome back, Lorna!

Golmona, one way I've learned to find greater peace with the "Darker" aspects of humanity (and therefore Self) as you mention, is to embrace the idea that "it is what it is." I've always thought the Serenity Prayer was a good example of this:

“God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."

Whether the human concept of justice is ever applied to a situation or not, the Natural/Divine Law of Karma (or Cause and Effect) will ensure that any being who causes a perceived harm to any "other" being will experience the same harm itself at some point. This cause and effect may play out in one lifetime or in many--and, as someone mentioned above, they will ultimately keep playing out until the involved beings no longer wish to experience these kinds of experiences. In that case, they will eventually heal from their traumas (through forgiveness, understanding, and love). And I think that's where many of us (including humanity itself, as a collective) find ourselves at the present moment. We're tired of that kind of experience and wish to move on to something much "higher" in frequency.

While I would certainly make other choices and take whatever actions I could to prevent something like these things from happening in this incarnation (if I was able to do so), I see those choices and actions as expressions of this particular aspect of Self (i.e., me in this life). The "other" aspects of Self that are doing what many perceive to be awful things are obviously choosing their own, very different journey and expression of life.

At the end of the day, I guess the best we can do in this moment is make the choices and take the actions that we feel are the truest expression of ourselves now, and trust that everything else is unfolding with perfect, Divine precision--just as it is all intended to. After all, if we can view this (and every other life) as a temporary experience and see that we are all One Being ("God", or "Source") experiencing itself in every possible way, then there is no true harm. There may certainly be traumatic experiences, but if they are truly temporary, then that means they can also be healed and eventually appreciated simply as experience.

As "Higher" or more Expanded Consciousness, Source knows much better than we do that "what we do to others, we do to ourselves". It must have infinite patience, observing and loving us as we stumble through our soul lessons--lifetime after lifetime!
 
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Carl

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Interesting approach that resonates Stargazer. There is something that puzzles me at times though, "how many times the One Being has to experience something?" Basically for example, pain (in its many forms, physical, emotional, mental or spiritually) has already been experienced so many times per individual ever born in this planet, in this dimension. The same can be said of other experiences like: joy, loss, loneliness, etc. That keeps me wondering many times during my walks.

Another unrelated point is that I want to believe that the planetary shift that we appear to be starting to experience now, the "Expanded Consciousness," is the result of the collective thought of millions of people having reached the point of needing a complete change in the current conditions. However, for each action there is a reaction, thus the people currently in power interested in keeping the status quo will not let the necessary changes to a more spiritually advanced society manifest without a fight. Many want a "Golden Era" -that some call it the "Age of Aquarius." I remember one of my teachers many years ago saying that what people don't realize is that as expressed by the planet Uranus in astrology, before the "Golden Era" the current status must be destroyed first (unexpectedly very often) to allow the new system is manifested. The upheaval must come first, and something tells me we are there now.
 

Stargazer

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Interesting approach that resonates Stargazer. There is something that puzzles me at times though, "how many times the One Being has to experience something?" Basically for example, pain (in its many forms, physical, emotional, mental or spiritually) has already been experienced so many times per individual ever born in this planet, in this dimension. The same can be said of other experiences like: joy, loss, loneliness, etc. That keeps me wondering many times during my walks.
I quite agree, Carl! Although I'm not so sure it's a case of how many times The One has to experience something, so much as it may be a case that The One simply needs to continue experiencing something. Otherwise, it would simply exist in an eternal state of unconscious potential--or "Cosmic Sleep"!

If consciousness is eternal, and I believe that it is, then there is a choice of experiencing nothing or something. Some theories, which Clif High sometimes mentions in his Wujos, surmise that Consciousness blinks into and out of existence (or awareness) several billion times per second. To me, this sounds like It continually alternates between a state of sleep and wakefulness (just as we humans do in the "microcosm" of our nights and days). This also sounds a lot like binary code, which signifies "0" for off and "1" for on.

From the highly expanded perspective of Source, I suspect that what we humans may define as "good" or "bad" is merely an experience--or something for It to perceive. It is Source's momentary blinking "on", having Its moment of Cosmic Wakefulness, then blinking off and having Its moment of Cosmic Sleep.

I also think for Source to experience everything, It would need to continually create new possibilities and new perspectives. Each "new" soul (or aspect of Source that has forgotten who/what it truly is) is a fresh, new start. It's a new opportunity to have completely new experiences and explore or create completely new potentials. Like Lorna's movie example, from Its higher perspective Source is the observer and we are the actors. Just as we delight in new television shows where we get to know new characters, immerse ourselves in their experiences, and explore their worlds, perhaps Source does the same in Its own way.

Joseph Campbell always spoke about "The Hero's Journey" and how nearly every book, every movie, and every play is essentially the same story, told over and over and over again. The faces, times, and costumes change, but the story is essentially the same--and we never seem to get tired of it. It makes perfect sense to me that WE are Source's heroes and, as fractals of Itself, it never gets tired of living our stories, no matter how repetitive they may sometimes seem from our perspective.

:)
 
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Hailstones Melt

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Interesting approach that resonates Stargazer. There is something that puzzles me at times though, "how many times the One Being has to experience something?" Basically for example, pain (in its many forms, physical, emotional, mental or spiritually) has already been experienced so many times per individual ever born in this planet, in this dimension. The same can be said of other experiences like: joy, loss, loneliness, etc. That keeps me wondering many times during my walks.

Another unrelated point is that I want to believe that the planetary shift that we appear to be starting to experience now, the "Expanded Consciousness," is the result of the collective thought of millions of people having reached the point of needing a complete change in the current conditions. However, for each action there is a reaction, thus the people currently in power interested in keeping the status quo will not let the necessary changes to a more spiritually advanced society manifest without a fight. Many want a "Golden Era" -that some call it the "Age of Aquarius." I remember one of my teachers many years ago saying that what people don't realize is that as expressed by the planet Uranus in astrology, before the "Golden Era" the current status must be destroyed first (unexpectedly very often) to allow the new system is manifested. The upheaval must come first, and something tells me we are there now.
I would have one thing to say, Carl, about your first question. Although there have been many billions of incarnated beings, animal, vegetable and mineral, each is unique to the other, although there may be many similarities. Each Soul (which may be Oversoul) has its own octave of vibration, and the vibrational filaments of experience are what is sent back to Source for complete integration and assimilation. One way of looking at it is through poetry (my mind is not scientific but poetic in nature). Within poetry is an increased scope of description, because it doesn't have to worry about proving anything.
 

Hailstones Melt

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Nothing stays evil forever, each soul grows at their own level and another thing is that the collective finds these atrocities undesirable and the more people demand that these things stop, the less we will have collectively these bloody incidents. But if those things are out of our reach we can only accept what is negative within our souls and work through our own pains and issues and aspects, but we have no control over the outer and there is nothing to do but detach.
:)
As I have mentioned before on the forum, I struggle with my own personal experience, which is that I love someone who pedophiled my daughter at a young age. This may be too in your face for many people, and in fact I am attacked by many people including my daughter and her friends, and other relatives who only know a small portion of the situation, for the fact that I still continue to see this person in my own time (yes, I did separate from my marriage to him 3 years ago, and keep arms distance between my daughter and him, meaning they haven't had to meet, in that time). I have not had sexual relations with him since this came up from suppression into the open 5 years ago, but I do still see him in friendship.

I do feel split by this oppositional situation, but I also realise I have given myself this as part of my emotional challenges to increase my vibrational quotient and meet the higher, loving energies of the transition. I do realise I can't change a person, therefore with regards to myself, it is all about how compassionate and loving I can be in a challenging circumstance. I see his abandonment as a baby in this lifetime, and his own abused childhood growing up in institutional care as areas where I can feel compassion, but I also feel detached to some extent as I also see his greater soul which has healing capabilities as well (which I have fully experienced). So it is a dichotomy of his nature. I let him know I am fully aware of his actions, and the hurt and trauma it has caused both her and me, but I think the fact that I have still been able to express love and compassion for him as well as help him out financially, has helped him heal on some level. I will not go so far as to say that he is fully healed, as that is a matter for himself and his own conscience.

I am vulnerable to being judged by many reading this, but I feel it is very pertinent to the topic that Karla has so eloquently explored.
 

Anaeika

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Brilliant discussion and welcome back, Lorna!

Golmona, one way I've learned to find greater peace with the "Darker" aspects of humanity (and therefore Self) as you mention, is to embrace the idea that "it is what it is." I've always thought the Serenity Prayer was a good example of this:

“God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."

Whether the human concept of justice is ever applied to a situation or not, the Natural/Divine Law of Karma (or Cause and Effect) will ensure that any being who causes a perceived harm to any "other" being will experience the same harm itself at some point. This cause and effect may play out in one lifetime or in many--and, as someone mentioned above, they will ultimately keep playing out until the involved beings no longer wish to experience these kinds of experiences. In that case, they will eventually heal from their traumas (through forgiveness, understanding, and love). And I think that's where many of us (including humanity itself, as a collective) find ourselves at the present moment. We're tired of that kind of experience and wish to move on to something much "higher" in frequency.

While I would certainly make other choices and take whatever actions I could to prevent something like these things from happening in this incarnation (if I was able to do so), I see those choices and actions as expressions of this particular aspect of Self (i.e., me in this life). The "other" aspects of Self that are doing what many perceive to be awful things are obviously choosing their own, very different journey and expression of life.

At the end of the day, I guess the best we can do in this moment is make the choices and take the actions that we feel are the truest expression of ourselves now, and trust that everything else is unfolding with perfect, Divine precision--just as it is all intended to. After all, if we can view this (and every other life) as a temporary experience and see that we are all One Being ("God", or "Source") experiencing itself in every possible way, then there is no true harm. There may certainly be traumatic experiences, but if they are truly temporary, then that means they can also be healed and eventually appreciated simply as experience.

As "Higher" or more Expanded Consciousness, Source knows much better than we do that "what we do to others, we do to ourselves". It must have infinite patience, observing and loving us as we stumble through our soul lessons--lifetime after lifetime!
Stargzer,

I am so glad you brought up these points. I believe you're talking about the problem of free will. Apparently, Earth is the only place experimenting with free will. This is
A very tough school. I think what can be done is forgiving ourselves--a necessary step to let go and move forward. And we have the power to make good choices.
 
OP
K

KarlaSM

Guest
Hailstones Melt I admire your capacity to express love so consistently and the way you acknowledge the difficulty of this situation, how you have coped with it and the honesty of your feelings. I can see then why so many people feel so vulnerable to these kinds of topics that are being constantly brought to the surface to be discussed in an attempt to bring healing and awareness. Just to think about having children and then to know that they were abused at some point by any relative or a stranger, does break my heart.

I guess that I did not mention this before but many years ago I used to listen to the music of a new age composer, and each piece said so much to my soul. I just love each song and his music was like a way to see at least part of this soul. At some point I read the news that he had been sent to jail for several years for the crime of abusing children. I could not feel anger or hate....I could only feel sadness and I still feel sadness and I swear right now I could shed some tears to remember his music and to think about what happened. I can only wonder how traumatized people must be to abuse another, especially children. In severe cases they totally lost their capacity to feel a connection to another being or to feel guilt or shame, although I was told by guides that at some point in further incarnations those people can heal, but simply we will not witness it.

I think that one of the reasons why many people abuse sexually is because in their traumatized condition, they have no control over their sexual energy. This applies both to males and females because there are also cases of females abusing young males. Males in particular have been taught that they cannot control their energy and that they have less sexual energy than women. In part this happened because of the imbalance in negative matriarchal ancient religions in which males were abused in many ways. Then if they are traumatized and imbalanced imagine those priests who end up abusing children.

Another thing is I have known of cases of both males and females who were severely abused and then ended up having such lack of control in their sexual energies that they ended up abusing others or even losing connection to their gender, so it might be a cycle of abuse. But the reasons and levels of soul fragmentation differ in each case of abuse so the examples I mention do not necessarily fully apply to all cases of abuse. It depends on lots of factors.

So my dear, at least on my own hand, I cannot judge you, I do not want to judge anyone knowing that I cannot know the pain of each person or of each family or how badness is born, but the only certainty I have been taught is that all forms of evil are born from suffering.
 

Krena

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  • Paraphrasing the question above by Carl: How many times does Source need to experience suffering --for example, children being maimed in the midst of combat -- directly or by proxy to gain knowledge or for entertainment or continuing amusement?

This is the question that can only lead me to conclude that Source has no compassion. Or Source does not comprehend this still. It is not the same as enjoying actors in a drama that we know is make believe.

Would we not expect more from Source?

Otherwise, something is wrong with the original assertion. Likely, the explanation or rationale for Source allowing pain and all varieities of human hurt is more complicated and probably unknowable. The Earth as a challenging school used to be a sufficient explanation for me, but it no longer is enough.
 
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KarlaSM

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Krena I would tend to think there is a certain logic in your assumption. Well of course it very much depends on what we think Source is. My own notion might not be accurate at all, but I believe in a lot of what scientists know about Source, you know, the Big Bang, whether it was physical or initially something purely energetic. Species have evolved, and I see humanity in itself as a very complex species resulting from other species in its own evolutionary process.

We cannot compare the level of consciousness of for example the times of the people from Babylon to our current times. Currently because of the sum of experiences and the new higher levels of awareness we are becoming much better than in ancient times.

Wouldn't then Source learn through the experiences of the sum of its parts?

Perhaps Source has compassion in the measure that we can learn more compassion but equally through us Source can experience the feelings of revenge and hate through us?

Just like how we have multidimensional level of consciousness Source is the same? It can experience hate and true unconditional love through each one of its parts?
 
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