Open Up Protests Around the World (1 Viewer)

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June

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Aug 3, 2016
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This world-wide lock down has affected so many people in so many different ways. It is a relief to see people standing up to authorities who've taken on way too much power.

 

Sinera

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from 3 days ago another meditation protest in Berlin again



at mark 2:40:
very friendly and nice policeman ... there should be more like him .... gives me hope

at mark 6:14:
that freedom-of-thought song at the end of the video seems to become a hymn for the peaceful protest movement in my country and I already posted about it in other threads such as here:

https://www.transients.info/roundtable/threads/music-part-two.3543/page-16#post-55911

:cool:
 

Kevin C

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I am laughing at the Democrat-controlled state governors in the USA, including my state California.

Three months ago, all of them were so serious and said that the states (NY's Cuomo so visibly adamant) were going to close as long as
possible to "save one life more", some even gave an estimate of August or more as a "hard" early opening date.
It is not just the protests (some armed, by the way, to send a message to the politicians) that affected the outcome - more that these idiots looked at the "state bank accounts" and saw them plunge into negative 10B's in just 2 months, realizing right away that the governments of all levels were
going bankrupt faster than the general population (yes, a majority live paycheck-to-paycheck, so that is a major incentive to protest, since a long lockdown is suicide).
The open up protests in USA started in late March early April, but people were hesitant because they were concerned local law enforcement were going to be draconian. Instead, "most" local law enforcement were actually internally supportive, because they felt it was a brazen power grab and overreach - and also they noticed right away the accelerated budget drain (zero revenue!) would affect their jobs directly!!

Objectively speaking, the lockdown should have been limited to a month tops. Beyond that, if the lockdown of one month didn't flatten the curve, the local pandemic was already too widespread for the lockdown to work (see NYC, probably what really happened). At this point, herd immunity will flatten the curve by itself.

I'm not sure about other countries (but I suspect the same dynamic happened), but here in US, a lot of states were defiant against the federal government (well, specifically heavy dose of TDS) in March, and said the states are responsible for their own health and lockdowns.
Here we are, almost three months later, these idiots on extended lockdowns have started to "accelerate" reopenings and beg for $100B bailouts!!!
Hey, you said you are responsible...... why are you crying for help now?
Sigh.................................

Having said that, the population at least needs to stay vigilant and maintain some habits for the time being (ex. mask and social distancing in large crowd places like Costco), to avoid infections. But it seems to be working in spurts, as Georgia and Texas are doing fine so far (no second wave), but Virginia not so good (spike).
Still depends on local variables - it is a pandemic after all, viruses only travel P2P.
 
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Hailstones Melt

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I do feel some compassion for people in decision-making roles, who weren't on top of it all when it first sprang into existence. It has certainly taken me a fair bit of time to encompass all the concepts and hear enough differing perspectives for me to know my own mind on the subject. For instance, I could see my neighbours ignoring all calls to isolate (going out at all times of day and night, having parties etc). Our society didn't go for the "welding of front doors" approach, so it was down to individual responsibility to do the right thing. On the other hand, the threat wasn't as great as made out in media, so their actions probably made little difference.

We are a port city (Fremantle Port), which means we are a trading state. So whilst state borders have been locked down to travel, we still receive incoming freight containers, etc. The state has handled community transmission really well (zero for quite a few weeks) but then clusters come in onboard vessels, meaning they have to quarantine in our city or go to our hospitals. I can see the frustration the politicians feel at this situation, but in economies, all has to flow like the tides coming in and going out.

So I think everyone has to be aware that we may take a further hit, but to carry on strongly, and ride the tide, so to speak. All the smart people with alternative viewpoints are saying that if we individually maintain a strong immune system, we should be able to have communication with others and deal with any viral consequences.
 
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Tania

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Jul 30, 2016
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We have to remember the deceit runs Deep and many in position of authority are not fully aware of what goes on and are concerned for their own and their families. This seperation of knowledge and resources is what is intended to keep us focused on our own desperation when in fact We live in a World of abundance. Sticking together is the only Way forward. However what We are doing Everyday is to meditate and act to end seperation and vibrate in unison and when i see protesters wear nazi or KKK gear that is a huge internalization of seperation and it creates such deep rooted fear that as much as We take destiny in our own hands - the Nature of violence is when someone rips you out of yours. We have to move into the present and that Will take us letting go of traditions. Many have been stripped of their through the violence of colonization - now it is time to stop identifikation with a past and in each moment to work on the now available to us all Where our freedom is joined in one vast body.
 

Hailstones Melt

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We have to remember the deceit runs Deep and many in position of authority are not fully aware of what goes on and are concerned for their own and their families. This seperation of knowledge and resources is what is intended to keep us focused on our own desperation when in fact We live in a World of abundance. Sticking together is the only Way forward. However what We are doing Everyday is to meditate and act to end seperation and vibrate in unison and when i see protesters wear nazi or KKK gear that is a huge internalization of seperation and it creates such deep rooted fear that as much as We take destiny in our own hands - the Nature of violence is when someone rips you out of yours. We have to move into the present and that Will take us letting go of traditions. Many have been stripped of their through the violence of colonization - now it is time to stop identifikation with a past and in each moment to work on the now available to us all Where our freedom is joined in one vast body.
I love your take on this. At some point, we just have to love ourselves enough to be able to love others, no matter what they bring. I am reading a Pleiadian message through Barbara Marciniak which reminds us, again, that now is the time the seed casing is broken through. Humanity as a collective has not sprouted, but is about to. All seeds have to go through that metamorphic transposition where the hard, limiting outer casing splits, breaks open and falls away, and the smooth, vulnerable shoot still surrounded by clumps of soil makes an unbelievable effort to push through. But the reward for doing so and growing the first green leaf in sight of the Sun is unquantifiable.
 
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Linda

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Now this subject is taking another turn with all the violent protests across the USA.

Here today, the main protest against police brutality was cancelled because the organizers feared the violent elements that were active yesterday would bring harm to the peaceful demonstrators. The ones I saw in video clips from yesterday were white. I kept wondering where they came from - did not look like UT students, who would not be here anyway, and not the tech people. So, who were they?

Chas Moore, the executive director of the Austin Justice Coalition, told KXAN that due to protesters “possibly hijacking this event, we could not assure the safety of black folks.”
“White people have colonized the black anger and the black movement in this particular time frame and have used black pain and black outrage to just completely become anarchists in this moment. What we’ve seen in Minneapolis and Atlanta is completely different because those have been black-led uprisings,” said Moore.
“But here in Austin if you look at what happened yesterday, it was predominately white people doing what they want to do and there’s not way with good mind and with a good conscience that we can have this event today because there’s no way possible for us to ensure the safety of black folk.”

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/organizers-for-sundays-justice-for-them-all-rally-in-austin-call-for-peaceful-protest/
 

Kevin C

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Sorry Linda, but Chas Moore is not someone you can trust to make such a judgment.
Look at what happened in Minneapolis. The mayor tried to pin it on "terrorists" and "white supremacists" (same as Chas), and was rudely shut down because LIVE videos show mostly black and local rioters. Just look at the arrest profiles and these broad strokes are slapped down.

The "protests" aka riots/looters/anarchists have become a proven formula set up by Soros organizations - BLM and OWS are majorly sponsored by them. Here's the formula:

1: Grievance: these are the "true" protesters. Ex. Those who lost houses due to bank misreporting during 2008-2009, Floyd's mother, etc. This group tends to show up first for obvious reasons. The problem is they are being orchestrated by (2).

2: The organizers: Soros organization, BLM, OWS, NAACP, SPLC, etc. - these organizations act like political machines. The minute some issue comes up, they start coming up with slogans, shirts, signs and hire "student" protesters to join (busing them in too). These people basically usurp the true protesters in (1) and start ramping up the volume and anger. This then leads to.......

3: Anarchists: ANTIFA, other Soros's sponsored (violent) organizations, local gangs, etc. - this is where the rioting starts, and entire cities go up in flames. These groups are well organized with blunt weapons such as bricks, sticks, Molotov cocktails, etc. They are the ones who start the violence and rioting, creating chaos. Unfortunately, the chaos lead to the entrance of the 4th group...

4: looters, criminals, low-income, etc.: this is where the local "people" start joining in, looting Target, breaking windows/doors - using the chaos created above to steal stuff. then they get interviewed live on TV and say things like "this is justified.." which is BS.

If you look at the LIVE videos of every riot in every city, you can see that there is not one dominant ethnicity - everyone comes out. Hispanics, Blacks, Whites, even some Asians. They represent 2-4.

Basically, the majority of the participants have absolutely nothing to do with the original grievance.

All of these insurrections need to be put down ASAP. These riots have absolutely nothing to do with Floyd now.
 
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Hailstones Melt

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I think the people in your points 2-4 are opportunists. They are the ruler that draws a line under a civilisation, which shows whether it has been successful or not. Opportunism (greed-bust-kill) should have been stymied somewhere in a person's home life, in their first 10 years. But all institutions from kindergarten up have not been helping in civilising nations.
 

Kevin C

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I think the people in your points 2-4 are opportunists. They are the ruler that draws a line under a civilisation, which shows whether it has been successful or not. Opportunism (greed-bust-kill) should have been stymied somewhere in a person's home life, in their first 10 years. But all institutions from kindergarten up have not been helping in civilising nations.
Agreed.
Basically, the sociopaths are in control, while the psychopaths are the leaders (Soros, Pelosi, Brennan, Comey, Schumer, Schiff, the old FBI gang,
Obama, Clinton...).
Recall a type of child personality -
let's assume a game of checkers, A playing B. A realizes he's already losing to B, blows his top off, swipes the board
clean, breaks the board, and stomps off.
A: Sore losers who will destroy the playing field when they realize they are losing.

These are the 2-4 opportunists.
Remember Soro's NGOs and Foundations have been outlawed throughout most of EU except for Spain and Italy (the only two still accepting refugees, btw, through the NGOs). Soros's only foothold left in the Western world is the US, and he has his claws all over the leftists and the Democrat party.
Even parts of Bill Gate's foundation sponsors these groups. Whether he is aware of it or not is up to debate; the foundations are multinational conglomerates themselves whose scale and financial heft can even dwarf Kraft, P&G!
And they hide all this under the guise of "political correctness", "diversity", "black power", "racial tensions", "minority repression".

Note: The biggest irony is Nike stores are sustaining major damage and theft, since most flagships are located in major urban centers. Guess who they sponsor and centerpiece their recent marketing campaigns? The biggest symbol of it all - Colin Kaepernick, the guy who instigated and justified the current violence. Even LeBron James indirectly gave it his approval. MJ did today as well.
So Nike screwed itself.
 
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Tania

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Jul 30, 2016
139
311
I love your take on this. At some point, we just have to love ourselves enough to be able to love others, no matter what they bring. I am reading a Pleiadian message through Barbara Marciniak which reminds us, again, that now is the time the seed casing is broken through. Humanity as a collective has not sprouted, but is about to. All seeds have to go through that metamorphic transposition where the hard, limiting outer casing splits, breaks open and falls away, and the smooth, vulnerable shoot still surrounded by clumps of soil makes an unbelievable effort to push through. But the reward for doing so and growing the first green leaf in sight of the Sun is unquantifiable.
I Think that it so much about narrative - and narrators - who gets to write the story(ies). I love the metaphor of seed and shooting and use it often when sort of taking an impossible stand on what is male and female Energy as in drive and nurture. I Think i see the spiritual as an oppertunity for freedom from the current narrative stronghold - more correctly headlock.
As an artist i see this New seeded humanity as shaping a New form and space for multinarrative.
You only have to be in somewhat touch with female Energy ( regardless of genders) to know deeply how the imbalance of masculine and feminine is and recognize the root of suppression of anything that is cyclical. Capitalism and the hierarchy of racism and the societal, religious and political structures that support it - all claim an upward Movement and drive and activity but never any rest or pause. The pause from work or consumption would be to allow for free thought. I Think power People are very much aware this Can not go on any longer and what We are seeing is a fight to get the game controller - the empty space for reflection left by corona, is an Open battlefield and Yes some are sitting back watching People get killed and speculating their next move cause We know they are careless.
We connect colonisation with something specific like land grap and the green leafs Breaking through the soil is the insisting that Brown People - want to tell their own stories with their own voices and Will not be drowned out, ignored, killed anymore.
How do We beat a violent system - Can We decolonize our minds - and actions all of us.
It is pivotal that those of us who understand the power of the feminine stand in our power to balance through nurture - make space of solidarity to show kindness, humility , helpfullness, support - and ask - what Can i do to support you - all of us.
I feel this is my fight to. I understand that there is a drive right now a masculine unbalanced enormous force to break through and get to the other side of this. If your family is harrassed, you Can not own anything, Can never get a break - it is hard to be balanced yourself - i am not even with everything i have - it is so brutal and We have to try to not sit in judgement but understand that People are trying to use broken systems to free themselves - cause i have and Im already free. We have to decide to share, and be willing to let go of our traditions, stories and our stuff to make Way for a New collective multivoice narrative. Like the root systems of trees, like cross pollination. No patents on seeds, No patents on reality. Only one vast body, or one garden.
 
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Tania

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Jul 30, 2016
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Sorry Linda, but Chas Moore is not someone you can trust to make such a judgment.
Look at what happened in Minneapolis. The mayor tried to pin it on "terrorists" and "white supremacists" (same as Chas), and was rudely shut down because LIVE videos show mostly black and local rioters. Just look at the arrest profiles and these broad strokes are slapped down.

The "protests" aka riots/looters/anarchists have become a proven formula set up by Soros organizations - BLM and OWS are majorly sponsored by them. Here's the formula:

1: Grievance: these are the "true" protesters. Ex. Those who lost houses due to bank misreporting during 2008-2009, Floyd's mother, etc. This group tends to show up first for obvious reasons. The problem is they are being orchestrated by (2).

2: The organizers: Soros organization, BLM, OWS, NAACP, SPLC, etc. - these organizations act like political machines. The minute some issue comes up, they start coming up with slogans, shirts, signs and hire "student" protesters to join (busing them in too). These people basically usurp the true protesters in (1) and start ramping up the volume and anger. This then leads to.......

3: Anarchists: ANTIFA, other Soros's sponsored (violent) organizations, local gangs, etc. - this is where the rioting starts, and entire cities go up in flames. These groups are well organized with blunt weapons such as bricks, sticks, Molotov cocktails, etc. They are the ones who start the violence and rioting, creating chaos. Unfortunately, the chaos lead to the entrance of the 4th group...

4: looters, criminals, low-income, etc.: this is where the local "people" start joining in, looting Target, breaking windows/doors - using the chaos created above to steal stuff. then they get interviewed live on TV and say things like "this is justified.." which is BS.

If you look at the LIVE videos of every riot in every city, you can see that there is not one dominant ethnicity - everyone comes out. Hispanics, Blacks, Whites, even some Asians. They represent 2-4.

Basically, the majority of the participants have absolutely nothing to do with the original grievance.

All of these insurrections need to be put down ASAP. These riots have absolutely nothing to do with Floyd now.
Hey Kevin, i hear you and it is always good to keep a cool head - However for the general situation to change - it Will not be enough to regard the discrimination of Black and Brown as a seperated cause/ issue from systemic suppression by the few of the many. Slavery in America makes for a specific trauma that is unfortunately ongoing but it is everyones fight. I don't believe in violence - yet wars are fought and weapons are supplied by my country.
I Think We are all being educated these days - and i can't see how White power is going to give anything away - correction - give back - afterall there has been a lot of waiting around for Brown People - being good consumers and workers - did that bring freedom?
 

Tania

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Jul 30, 2016
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Agreed.
Basically, the sociopaths are in control, while the psychopaths are the leaders (Soros, Pelosi, Brennan, Comey, Schumer, Schiff, the old FBI gang,
Obama, Clinton...).
Recall a type of child personality -
let's assume a game of checkers, A playing B. A realizes he's already losing to B, blows his top off, swipes the board
clean, breaks the board, and stomps off.
A: Sore losers who will destroy the playing field when they realize they are losing.

These are the 2-4 opportunists.
Remember Soro's NGOs and Foundations have been outlawed throughout most of EU except for Spain and Italy (the only two still accepting refugees, btw, through the NGOs). Soros's only foothold left in the Western world is the US, and he has his claws all over the leftists and the Democrat party.
Even parts of Bill Gate's foundation sponsors these groups. Whether he is aware of it or not is up to debate; the foundations are multinational conglomerates themselves whose scale and financial heft can even dwarf Kraft, P&G!
And they hide all this under the guise of "political correctness", "diversity", "black power", "racial tensions", "minority repression".

Note: The biggest irony is Nike stores are sustaining major damage and theft, since most flagships are located in major urban centers. Guess who they sponsor and centerpiece their recent marketing campaigns? The biggest symbol of it all - Colin Kaepernick, the guy who instigated and justified the current violence. Even LeBron James indirectly gave it his approval. MJ did today as well.
So Nike screwed itself.
Nike knows they made more money of pretending to be black than any rioting is ever going to cost Them. They are Great manipulators - they Will come out with a New slave Labour sneaker and Call it" riot".
Im not understanding the point with what countries in Europe that are taking refugees - i don't want to speculate as to what you are saying - Can you explain what you mean?
I Can tell you that my country is not even bringing home Danish kids in refuge camps in Syria, and grand parents are ready for Them here.
We are Also not standing in solidarity with the EU countries hit the hardest by corona or refuge crisis. I find it embarrassing.
Im fairly sure We have really different understandings - since I Think Colin kaepernick is a brave man who is a Great role model :) i don't have problem with a healthy debate. Also i am not all opinions without experience i used to livein the US.
 
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Linda

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I carefully watched the interviews and videos for the raw data. Several protestors were interviewed, and I was very interested to hear sincere personal stories and beliefs. Then there were those who were there to support and did not add much other than to say "this has to end", although I doubt they could articulate what "this" was. The eyeopener was a couple of very aggressive people who were in favor of "by any means".

While Chas Moore has his own agenda, he did call this one for what it was. The Saturday events were heavily populated by young, white people hell-bent on destruction. As I asked in my first post, who were these people?? Saturday evening there were incidents of looting, spray painting, fires, and throwing things at the police. One scene was of some young white people dressed in black setting fire to the belongings of a homeless man. They were laughing, but the man's anguish was caught on film as he said this is where I live.

Sunday was most interesting. Although the protest cancelled, a few hundred peaceful people of all races migrated to the capitol building. People were singing, speaking, and a few chants, but mostly very friendly. As a few news people observed - this is the kind of protest that we've always had in Austin.

Now jump over to the group at the police headquarters many blocks away, and it was a different story. There were some aggressive people who appeared to be organizing groups to climb the embankments to get on a major interstate highway and block traffic. When the protestors would not leave the highway, the police eventually resorted to smoke and tear gas. It was interesting to see several people at the ready with water, milk, and contact lens solution. They were just too well-prepared. As the evening wore on, the peaceful people left and the aggressive stayed until well past midnight yelling, running around, but not much looting, as everything was pretty well secured and/or protected by the police.

An interesting tidbit came in a news release Sunday morning. Target is closing several stores, including 5 here, because of the looting problem. Later that afternoon, one of those stores was looted, along with a Foot Locker. This was some distance north of the protests. Also, there was an attempted looting at a Macy's in a mall far to the northwest.

Listening to interviews with the police chief and the mayor, I heard discussions about people from outside Austin coming to stir up trouble. One newscaster used the word anarchists. So now there is lip service to these groups, although none were named.

The focus is on race, but I see a larger picture of the haves and have-nots. Even ones we might consider as haves are manipulated in ways they don't see. The have-nots are left with inferior schools, food, and medical services, and for everyone - the celebrity cult. Much as been done by the hidden forces Kevin mentions to make a show of correcting these problems but little actually is done. I believe the hidden forces manipulating these protests intend to widen and weaponize racial tensions.

What to do? I don't believe any meaningful changes can come from this place in which we live. I go back to that QHHT session where I saw what it was like to live without manipulation and where all can thrive. It is that place that I hold in my heart and hope to see.
 

Tania

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Jul 30, 2016
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I carefully watched the interviews and videos for the raw data. Several protestors were interviewed, and I was very interested to hear sincere personal stories and beliefs. Then there were those who were there to support and did not add much other than to say "this has to end", although I doubt they could articulate what "this" was. The eyeopener was a couple of very aggressive people who were in favor of "by any means".

While Chas Moore has his own agenda, he did call this one for what it was. The Saturday events were heavily populated by young, white people hell-bent on destruction. As I asked in my first post, who were these people?? Saturday evening there were incidents of looting, spray painting, fires, and throwing things at the police. One scene was of some young white people dressed in black setting fire to the belongings of a homeless man. They were laughing, but the man's anguish was caught on film as he said this is where I live.

Sunday was most interesting. Although the protest cancelled, a few hundred peaceful people of all races migrated to the capitol building. People were singing, speaking, and a few chants, but mostly very friendly. As a few news people observed - this is the kind of protest that we've always had in Austin.

Now jump over to the group at the police headquarters many blocks away, and it was a different story. There were some aggressive people who appeared to be organizing groups to climb the embankments to get on a major interstate highway and block traffic. When the protestors would not leave the highway, the police eventually resorted to smoke and tear gas. It was interesting to see several people at the ready with water, milk, and contact lens solution. They were just to well-prepared. As the evening wore on, the peaceful people left and the aggressive stayed until well past midnight yelling, running around, but not much looting, as everything was pretty well secured and/or protected by the police.

An interesting tidbit came in a news release Sunday morning. Target is closing several stores, including 5 here, because of the looting problem. Later that afternoon, one of those stores was looted, along with a Foot Locker. This was some distance north of the protests. Also, there was an attempted looting at a Macy's in a mall far to the northwest.

Listening to interviews with the police chief and the mayor, I heard discussions about people from outside Austin coming to stir up trouble. One newscaster used the word anarchists. So now there is lip service to these groups, although none were named.

The focus is on race, but I see a larger picture of the haves and have-nots. Even ones we might consider as haves are manipulated in ways they don't see. The have-nots are left with inferior schools, food, and medical services, and for everyone - the celebrity cult. Much as been done by the hidden forces Kevin mentions to make a show of correcting these problems but little actually is done. I believe the hidden forces manipulating these protests intend to widen and weaponize racial tensions.

What to do? I don't believe any meaningful changes can come from this place in which we live. I go back to that QHHT session where I saw what it was like to live without manipulation and where all can thrive. It is that place that I hold in my heart and hope to see.
That Sound crazy - not like solidarity burning other poor People's stuff. There is always the possibilities that they are hired in to create chaos and give what could be a liberation Movement a sinister feel. It could Also be they are like hooligans - hooliganism is huge in Europe and soccer fans Will get away with completely destroying neighberhoods - just cause the "cause" is regarded as non political - so if you actually believe in something - then it is much more dangerous cause you have conviction.
 
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Linda

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It could Also be they are like hooligans
exactly - such a difference in the two groups - peaceful and friendly in one place and out of control in another. It does not take much to hype up a person who does not really think, and that is exactly what happened. The ability to actually see a person as another human or that a little store is owned by a family is closed off.
 
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Kevin C

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Hey Kevin, i hear you and it is always good to keep a cool head - However for the general situation to change - it Will not be enough to regard the discrimination of Black and Brown as a seperated cause/ issue from systemic suppression by the few of the many. Slavery in America makes for a specific trauma that is unfortunately ongoing but it is everyones fight. I don't believe in violence - yet wars are fought and weapons are supplied by my country.
I Think We are all being educated these days - and i can't see how White power is going to give anything away - correction - give back - afterall there has been a lot of waiting around for Brown People - being good consumers and workers - did that bring freedom?
Thank you for your response Tania.

Here's the problem. If we ask for reparations for slavery and white power in American history, when is it going to stop? What about the American Indians who were ravaged? What about the Chinese who were used as indentured servants during the California Gold Rush days? What about the Japanese Americans who were unlawfully detained during World War II? What about Americans who were harassed during the Communist blacklist days of J. Edgar Hoover?
Now let's go to Europe. There's a treasure trove of these grievances, since so many countries invaded each other all over Europe throughout history.
Are the rest of Europe going to ask England for reparations due to William the Conqueror? Same for Alexander of Greece. Same with the Romans.
The Hapsburg Empire. How about all of Europe destroyed during Nazi days, not to mention slave labor for their war machine?

See where I'm getting at? History is.... history. There is nothing we can do to change it. Asking for reparations (correction) of history by going overboard on the other side is too much.

As far as white power - America was started by WASP - white anglo saxon protestants. It's history. There will always be some advantage (well, at least until the population makeup changes eventually) to the major population. And as far as racism is concerned, it is a fact of life. Sure, we can always talk about it and try to assuage it, but it is always there no matter what. If you think racism is a problem in the US and Europe, you really haven't traveled and lived at all.
Try being white or black in China, Japan, South Korea, any of Southeast Asia countries, or Middle East. Not traveling - actually living there and competing with the locals for jobs and livelihoods.
This is what they don't talk about at all - racism is ten-times worse in Asia and Middle East.
Again, they do not talk about "China power", "Japan power", "Korean power", etc.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any effort at trying to understand. What I'm against is the endless efforts at reparations and apologies. It's history, it's society. Are we going to keep apologizing forever? Are we going to keep getting mad at these injustices forever?

There will always be bad apples (the cop in Floyd arrest), always. It is impossible to ask all of society root out ALL racism.

I prefer looking forward and having positive efforts at cooperation. And even then, understanding there will always be bad apples. These bad apples do not represent the group as a whole, just like the riots and lootings do not represent the genuine Floyd protesters at all.

Again, there will always be misunderstandings. I have had my share too. How I deal with it is cool head, compassion, empathy and logical discourse, even if the other side spews vitriol. And sometimes, there's nothing you can do but ignore them and walk away.
 

Kevin C

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Nike knows they made more money of pretending to be black than any rioting is ever going to cost Them. They are Great manipulators - they Will come out with a New slave Labour sneaker and Call it" riot".
Im not understanding the point with what countries in Europe that are taking refugees - i don't want to speculate as to what you are saying - Can you explain what you mean?
I Can tell you that my country is not even bringing home Danish kids in refuge camps in Syria, and grand parents are ready for Them here.
We are Also not standing in solidarity with the EU countries hit the hardest by corona or refuge crisis. I find it embarrassing.
Im fairly sure We have really different understandings - since I Think Colin kaepernick is a brave man who is a Great role model :) i don't have problem with a healthy debate. Also i am not all opinions without experience i used to livein the US.
I read a news article a few years ago about migrant and refugee crisis (both Syria and north Africa origins), how most are "helped" to their destinations by Soro's NGOs, and how Hungary began the movement by outlawing Soros (fighting with the EU as well). The best example of this is when Richard Gere decided to virtue signal and sat with illegal migrants on a boat off the coast of Italy (I believe).
I wish I could pull that (and many other) articles out to show you, but can't find them anymore.
And thank you for your question.
Please understand I'm referring to illegal (outsider) refugees/migrants, not european citizens who are trying to get back.
And I'm not trying to paint a broad stroke by saying all migrants/refugees are bad. What I'm saying is there are legal ways and means of being refugees (embassy application, get in line, etc.) instead of mass invasion of EU borders and forcing them to board them up.
Here in CA we have our version of this, and most voting-citizens in CA are internally incensed. Citizens are treated as second class, and illegals get benefits that match the equivalent of at least $80,000 annual income level, the biggest being free family health care coverage.

Colin Kaepernick, sorry, he's not a role model. I have no problem with his protest (that's fine). I have a huge problem with how he does it, by disrespecting the country flag during national anthem, by disrespecting his employer's social guidelines, by wearing "FU police" socks during games.

You can conduct protests "on your own time". Weekends, before games, after games.

Imagine us "normal" people trying to do any of that. Try going to work wearing "My boss sucks and is racist". Or going to work at 10AM when work starts at 7. Or bringing weed and hookah to work (seriously, some NFL and NBA players did this back in the 80-90s). Or ignoring your boss's call for a meeting or a roll-call (hotels do this all the time to make sure everyone is present).

For those of you who are teachers - same thing applies. Imagine if the students were like Colin Kaepernick. They will ignore you, wear "teacher sucks" shirts, come in 20 minutes late for class, etc.

Colin is an OK-quarterback. He should be in the NFL. Why isn't he? Not because of racism or blacklisting. Because of his conduct.
Any normal business owner will not hire an employee who flouts rules and doesn't agree to the company's system.

Again, I emphasize - I'm not against his protest. I'm against his conduct of the protest. And what we see is the result of it - lawless violent riots and lootings that flout and ignore law and order, ignore civility. He created this beast we see today, and Soros/Democrats organizations took advantage of it to create chaos, completely drowning the original protesters's messages.
 
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Hailstones Melt

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I Think that it so much about narrative - and narrators - who gets to write the story(ies). I love the metaphor of seed and shooting and use it often when sort of taking an impossible stand on what is male and female Energy as in drive and nurture. I Think i see the spiritual as an oppertunity for freedom from the current narrative stronghold - more correctly headlock.
As an artist i see this New seeded humanity as shaping a New form and space for multinarrative.
You only have to be in somewhat touch with female Energy ( regardless of genders) to know deeply how the imbalance of masculine and feminine is and recognize the root of suppression of anything that is cyclical. Capitalism and the hierarchy of racism and the societal, religious and political structures that support it - all claim an upward Movement and drive and activity but never any rest or pause. The pause from work or consumption would be to allow for free thought. I Think power People are very much aware this Can not go on any longer and what We are seeing is a fight to get the game controller - the empty space for reflection left by corona, is an Open battlefield and Yes some are sitting back watching People get killed and speculating their next move cause We know they are careless.
We connect colonisation with something specific like land grap and the green leafs Breaking through the soil is the insisting that Brown People - want to tell their own stories with their own voices and Will not be drowned out, ignored, killed anymore.
How do We beat a violent system - Can We decolonize our minds - and actions all of us.
It is pivotal that those of us who understand the power of the feminine stand in our power to balance through nurture - make space of solidarity to show kindness, humility , helpfullness, support - and ask - what Can i do to support you - all of us.
I feel this is my fight to. I understand that there is a drive right now a masculine unbalanced enormous force to break through and get to the other side of this. If your family is harrassed, you Can not own anything, Can never get a break - it is hard to be balanced yourself - i am not even with everything i have - it is so brutal and We have to try to not sit in judgement but understand that People are trying to use broken systems to free themselves - cause i have and Im already free. We have to decide to share, and be willing to let go of our traditions, stories and our stuff to make Way for a New collective multivoice narrative. Like the root systems of trees, like cross pollination. No patents on seeds, No patents on reality. Only one vast body, or one garden.
Tania, you've given me a lot to think about here. I'll be back later on to re-read and keep thinking on it. Thanks!
 

Hailstones Melt

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I carefully watched the interviews and videos for the raw data. Several protestors were interviewed, and I was very interested to hear sincere personal stories and beliefs. Then there were those who were there to support and did not add much other than to say "this has to end", although I doubt they could articulate what "this" was. The eyeopener was a couple of very aggressive people who were in favor of "by any means".

While Chas Moore has his own agenda, he did call this one for what it was. The Saturday events were heavily populated by young, white people hell-bent on destruction. As I asked in my first post, who were these people?? Saturday evening there were incidents of looting, spray painting, fires, and throwing things at the police. One scene was of some young white people dressed in black setting fire to the belongings of a homeless man. They were laughing, but the man's anguish was caught on film as he said this is where I live.

Sunday was most interesting. Although the protest cancelled, a few hundred peaceful people of all races migrated to the capitol building. People were singing, speaking, and a few chants, but mostly very friendly. As a few news people observed - this is the kind of protest that we've always had in Austin.

Now jump over to the group at the police headquarters many blocks away, and it was a different story. There were some aggressive people who appeared to be organizing groups to climb the embankments to get on a major interstate highway and block traffic. When the protestors would not leave the highway, the police eventually resorted to smoke and tear gas. It was interesting to see several people at the ready with water, milk, and contact lens solution. They were just too well-prepared. As the evening wore on, the peaceful people left and the aggressive stayed until well past midnight yelling, running around, but not much looting, as everything was pretty well secured and/or protected by the police.

An interesting tidbit came in a news release Sunday morning. Target is closing several stores, including 5 here, because of the looting problem. Later that afternoon, one of those stores was looted, along with a Foot Locker. This was some distance north of the protests. Also, there was an attempted looting at a Macy's in a mall far to the northwest.

Listening to interviews with the police chief and the mayor, I heard discussions about people from outside Austin coming to stir up trouble. One newscaster used the word anarchists. So now there is lip service to these groups, although none were named.

The focus is on race, but I see a larger picture of the haves and have-nots. Even ones we might consider as haves are manipulated in ways they don't see. The have-nots are left with inferior schools, food, and medical services, and for everyone - the celebrity cult. Much as been done by the hidden forces Kevin mentions to make a show of correcting these problems but little actually is done. I believe the hidden forces manipulating these protests intend to widen and weaponize racial tensions.

What to do? I don't believe any meaningful changes can come from this place in which we live. I go back to that QHHT session where I saw what it was like to live without manipulation and where all can thrive. It is that place that I hold in my heart and hope to see.
Just a note about Target stores: within 18 months all of them will close here. It was recently announced (could be some good sales, inbetween). The managing group is local - Wesfarmers - so that might just be a localised event for this shopping group.
 

Kevin C

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Just a note about Target stores: within 18 months all of them will close here. It was recently announced (could be some good sales, inbetween). The managing group is local - Wesfarmers - so that might just be a localised event for this shopping group.
Thanks for the note! Interesting, did a wiki search. Wesfarmers owns the Kmart name outright in Australia. Has a licensing agreement for target. small wonder they want to close all targets.
FYI - Kmart is practically dead here in the USA, lol. It was the Walmart of the 70s-90s, Kmarts everywhere.
Relatively speaking, Target is doing well here, despite the brief hiccup with virtue signaling the past few years.
My local Target is always packed with people midday, it is doing brisk business.

Interesting Kmart is doing so well in Australia! O.o:D
 

Tania

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Thank you for your response Tania.

Here's the problem. If we ask for reparations for slavery and white power in American history, when is it going to stop? What about the American Indians who were ravaged? What about the Chinese who were used as indentured servants during the California Gold Rush days? What about the Japanese Americans who were unlawfully detained during World War II? What about Americans who were harassed during the Communist blacklist days of J. Edgar Hoover?
Now let's go to Europe. There's a treasure trove of these grievances, since so many countries invaded each other all over Europe throughout history.
Are the rest of Europe going to ask England for reparations due to William the Conqueror? Same for Alexander of Greece. Same with the Romans.
The Hapsburg Empire. How about all of Europe destroyed during Nazi days, not to mention slave labor for their war machine?

See where I'm getting at? History is.... history. There is nothing we can do to change it. Asking for reparations (correction) of history by going overboard on the other side is too much.

As far as white power - America was started by WASP - white anglo saxon protestants. It's history. There will always be some advantage (well, at least until the population makeup changes eventually) to the major population. And as far as racism is concerned, it is a fact of life. Sure, we can always talk about it and try to assuage it, but it is always there no matter what. If you think racism is a problem in the US and Europe, you really haven't traveled and lived at all.
Try being white or black in China, Japan, South Korea, any of Southeast Asia countries, or Middle East. Not traveling - actually living there and competing with the locals for jobs and livelihoods.
This is what they don't talk about at all - racism is ten-times worse in Asia and Middle East.
Again, they do not talk about "China power", "Japan power", "Korean power", etc.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any effort at trying to understand. What I'm against is the endless efforts at reparations and apologies. It's history, it's society. Are we going to keep apologizing forever? Are we going to keep getting mad at these injustices forever?

There will always be bad apples (the cop in Floyd arrest), always. It is impossible to ask all of society root out ALL racism.

I prefer looking forward and having positive efforts at cooperation. And even then, understanding there will always be bad apples. These bad apples do not represent the group as a whole, just like the riots and lootings do not represent the genuine Floyd protesters at all.

Again, there will always be misunderstandings. I have had my share too. How I deal with it is cool head, compassion, empathy and logical discourse, even if the other side spews vitriol. And sometimes, there's nothing you can do but ignore them and walk away.
Hi Kevin Thanks for the reply. I Think the American situation is different - Obviously you know so pardon me for staying the obvious but just for everyone Else Reading Along. The wealth gap is Growing and it has a Color. African Americans as American citizens who did not imigrate by choice are still at Extreme disadvantage in acces to housing, Education and safety. Meanwhile culturally African American Music, imagery, performance, Dance and athletisism has taken over in the World of popular culture.
The difference between the groups you establish and the Way you equalize historical disadvantage is that African Americans have only had a history of slavery to image themselves against until they had gained power to fight back. That history is short, on going and still projected in trauma. Even the bravest Tuskegee airmen and their circumstances are relatively unknown.
Now African history offers the vessel of civilization and king, queens and the rise and fall of empires - Maybe even Jesus. This history is part of the World you talk about Where We Can say - kingdoms have come and gone. African Americans on the other hand have No own land as reparation - like Israel. They have No place to return to and they are barely scratching the surface when it comes to owning what Came from their suffering. Land, Music, art and Education.
It is up to anyone to decide how much We empathize or believe - everyone Else than ourselves should get over it. I decide on empathy. Thats why i Can understand that the American flag might mean something to you - While for me i have little attachment to the Danish flag, but you see i Also know my ancestors. They use to Club People and burn their villages. They build an Empire and wore helmets with horns. They kept colonizing and many today still feel quite special that they somehow deserve the wealth of northan Europe. I guess i see it more as something to treasure by shareing. I have a feeling It's cause Im on top of the food chain and have many choices. I Can travel and stay or leave. Sometimes the priviliges make us blind to anyone elses experience. I have Met many who say they do not see the color of someones skin. I have never Met a Brown person unaware they are Brown in the Company of whites. In my life i have Seen how African Americans are simultaniously adored and demonised. Hip hop Music and rap " urban culture" has Given a voice to all oppressed which is ambivalent when it leads to yet more cultural appropriation.
Im not personally concerned with a t shirt or socks slogans unless it carries the weight of Holocaust.
However just like the denial of Holocaust - The erasing or neglect of African American trauma still occuring leads me to disagrew with you in that i Think We should apologize - just like when We collectively meditate - We should free ourselves from seperation and ownership, but actively support. Ask questions.
I for one dont hear enough apologies. I mainly here the disgruntled squeaking of People holding on to a time gone. In that Way i agree with you we are moving on and history Will be written by the People.

Oh, just wanted to add i only share based on my lived experience.
 
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Hailstones Melt

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Thanks for the note! Interesting, did a wiki search. Wesfarmers owns the Kmart name outright in Australia. Has a licensing agreement for target. small wonder they want to close all targets.
FYI - Kmart is practically dead here in the USA, lol. It was the Walmart of the 70s-90s, Kmarts everywhere.
Relatively speaking, Target is doing well here, despite the brief hiccup with virtue signaling the past few years.
My local Target is always packed with people midday, it is doing brisk business.

Interesting Kmart is doing so well in Australia! O.o:D
I have both K-Mart and Target within 3 minutes walk of where I live - but I hardly ever go there !!!
 
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Hailstones Melt

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Hi Kevin Thanks for the reply. I Think the American situation is different - Obviously you know so pardon me for staying the obvious but just for everyone Else Reading Along. The wealth gap is Growing and it has a Color. African Americans as American citizens who did not imigrate by choice are still at Extreme disadvantage in acces to housing, Education and safety. Meanwhile culturally African American Music, imagery, performance, Dance and athletisism has taken over in the World of popular culture.
The difference between the groups you establish and the Way you equalize historical disadvantage is that African Americans have only had a history of slavery to image themselves against until they had gained power to fight back. That history is short, on going and still projected in trauma. Even the bravest Tuskegee airmen and their circumstances are relatively unknown.
Now African history offers the vessel of civilization and king, queens and the rise and fall of empires - Maybe even Jesus. This history is part of the World you talk about Where We Can say - kingdoms have come and gone. African Americans on the other hand have No own land as reparation - like Israel. They have No place to return to and they are barely scratching the surface when it comes to owning what Came from their suffering. Land, Music, art and Education.
It is up to anyone to decide how much We empathize or believe - everyone Else than ourselves should get over it. I decide on empathy. Thats why i Can understand that the American flag might mean something to you - While for me i have little attachment to the Danish flag, but you see i Also know my ancestors. They use to Club People and burn their villages. They build an Empire and wore helmets with horns. They kept colonizing and many today still feel quite special that they somehow deserve the wealth of northan Europe. I guess i see it more as something to treasure by shareing. I have a feeling It's cause Im on top of the food chain and have many choices. I Can travel and stay or leave. Sometimes the priviliges make us blind to anyone elses experience. I have Met many who say they do not see the color of someones skin. I have never Met a Brown person unaware they are Brown in the Company of whites. In my life i have Seen how African Americans are simultaniously adored and demonised. Hip hop Music and rap " urban culture" has Given a voice to all oppressed which is ambivalent when it leads to yet more cultural appropriation.
Im not personally concerned with a t shirt or socks slogans unless it carries the weight of Holocaust.
However just like the denial of Holocaust - The erasing or neglect of African American trauma still occuring leads me to disagrew with you in that i Think We should apologize - just like when We collectively meditate - We should free ourselves from seperation and ownership, but actively support. Ask questions.
I for one dont hear enough apologies. I mainly here the disgruntled squeaking of People holding on to a time gone. In that Way i agree with you we are moving on and history Will be written by the People.

Oh, just wanted to add i only share based on my lived experience.
Tania, you obviously feel deeply and are very knowledgeable.

Because the nature of this forum is spiritual, I think this is the best place where we can express our multi-dimensionality - and layers and layers of lives - meaning we are the descendants and we are the ancestors. I know this way of thinking is perhaps a step too far for those living either in apathy or in suffering. I, for one, have had my eyes opened to the living conditions of our First People, as I have actually been on to Missions - something many Australians cannot say they have. The point is, do they even care? Government periodically says an apology, and I think it stems from the right place. But they are only there to guide. The real compassion has to well up in the hearts of the average majority, for really heart-felt apology and making amends. The trouble is, people living in their cushy, white playgrounds don't feel ownership of the problem. They don't think they are their own ancestors.

This is all about expansion and growth and maturity. The number of white people protesting shows that there is a groundswell in the majority, in that their hearts are touched and they feel compassion for what was obviously a blatant crime against another human being, all nuanced, of course. While the opportunists grab the headlines, it is what is going on in the hearts of average people, all colours of the spectrum, that can change the status quo and the stuck polarities.

Something I also owe to the awakening ones who have written books is the knowledge of the cycles of time. Our written history doesn't go back much further than the beginning of the Piscean Age. Those quarters of Ages (500-year blocks) have a magnetic imprint. The Dark Ages (that 500 years we call 500AD to about 1,000 AD) were probably the lowest ebb of the cycle, with the Renaissance (bringing the world back to light) in that block of time from about 1400 AD onward. And now we are right in the funnel of time where something new can be brought forward.

If you have knowledge of ancient kingdoms in Africa, I invite you to write a thread for the Ancient Civilisations board, as that is a whole area we haven't touched on yet. I know Graham Hancock has researched some of this in Ethiopia and Eritrea, and there is the whole area of what the Sahara lands were like before desertification - northern Sudan and all that. PM me if you have any ideas that you'd really like to explore.
 
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Kevin C

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Hi Kevin Thanks for the reply. I Think the American situation is different - Obviously you know so pardon me for staying the obvious but just for everyone Else Reading Along. The wealth gap is Growing and it has a Color. African Americans as American citizens who did not imigrate by choice are still at Extreme disadvantage in acces to housing, Education and safety. Meanwhile culturally African American Music, imagery, performance, Dance and athletisism has taken over in the World of popular culture.
The difference between the groups you establish and the Way you equalize historical disadvantage is that African Americans have only had a history of slavery to image themselves against until they had gained power to fight back. That history is short, on going and still projected in trauma. Even the bravest Tuskegee airmen and their circumstances are relatively unknown.
Now African history offers the vessel of civilization and king, queens and the rise and fall of empires - Maybe even Jesus. This history is part of the World you talk about Where We Can say - kingdoms have come and gone. African Americans on the other hand have No own land as reparation - like Israel. They have No place to return to and they are barely scratching the surface when it comes to owning what Came from their suffering. Land, Music, art and Education.
It is up to anyone to decide how much We empathize or believe - everyone Else than ourselves should get over it. I decide on empathy. Thats why i Can understand that the American flag might mean something to you - While for me i have little attachment to the Danish flag, but you see i Also know my ancestors. They use to Club People and burn their villages. They build an Empire and wore helmets with horns. They kept colonizing and many today still feel quite special that they somehow deserve the wealth of northan Europe. I guess i see it more as something to treasure by shareing. I have a feeling It's cause Im on top of the food chain and have many choices. I Can travel and stay or leave. Sometimes the priviliges make us blind to anyone elses experience. I have Met many who say they do not see the color of someones skin. I have never Met a Brown person unaware they are Brown in the Company of whites. In my life i have Seen how African Americans are simultaniously adored and demonised. Hip hop Music and rap " urban culture" has Given a voice to all oppressed which is ambivalent when it leads to yet more cultural appropriation.
Im not personally concerned with a t shirt or socks slogans unless it carries the weight of Holocaust.
However just like the denial of Holocaust - The erasing or neglect of African American trauma still occuring leads me to disagrew with you in that i Think We should apologize - just like when We collectively meditate - We should free ourselves from seperation and ownership, but actively support. Ask questions.
I for one dont hear enough apologies. I mainly here the disgruntled squeaking of People holding on to a time gone. In that Way i agree with you we are moving on and history Will be written by the People.

Oh, just wanted to add i only share based on my lived experience.
Thanks for your response.

I think we have a misunderstanding here on all points, but that's ok, cultural norms and translations tend to create such gaps.

I am not advocating for "erasing" history, or "downplaying" it. I understand the horrors of the Holocaust, not personally but from anecdotes and live seminars given by survivors. A major note here - the Holocaust survivors I met/heard from all advocate recognition of the situation.
They are not asking for apologies. They are asking for the world to understand the lessons of the Holocaust and not to repeat it ever again. Some even understand why a lot of people think its a hoax. They respond it with kindness - we can only keep educating and help the world understand the critical lessons - the idea of a free world is that there will always be disagreements and people who don't accept the truth. That is the beauty of free speech, freedom of religion, and freedom from unjust persecution. Hence the Magna Carta, US Constitution.

What I meant is, aside from the annual remembrance events (ex. Armenian genocide, D-Day, Armistice day, July 4, etc.), do we really have to keep reminding people of the trauma? At the same time, I understand what you mean by "ancestor guilt", but again, at what point do you stop? Do you want to keep reminding new generations of such atrocities that were committed hundreds of years ago and create new animosities that were never there in the first place?

The point of history lessons is to take critical themes, learn from them, and avoid future mistakes.
I do not believe that history is there for us to keep reliving it.

The same thing happens every year in Asia (Japan's Yasukuni shrine). Every year Japan has a memorial service for their war dead (Memorial Day in US is the same), yet every country in Asia always get mad that time of the year, and ask for reparations. China has Nanjing massacre. Same thing happens.

There's a fine line between (remembering and recognizing history), and (embracing and internalizing history). If every Caucasian keeps apologizing to every African American every day, does that make it any less painful? All it does is cause more pain by creating new revenge motives.

I have seen this happen all over Asia. Every year. Some youth calls up history, gets riled up, and attack civilians. China against Japan. Vietnam against China (yes, invasions from hundreds of years ago, and the same logic you make), Taiwan against China (same thing different intensity), Korea against China (oh, the vitriol matches China-Japan)... And almost all victims are hapless tourists or foreigners who are trying hard to make a living in another country (ex. a Japanese in China, Chinese businessmen in Vietnam). You don't see it in western media because those are local trifles, not international news.

As far as economic inequality - sorry, same thing happens all over the world. African Americans are no less disenfranchised as other groups in other countries.
Vietnamese are always jealous of their Chinese bosses. Chinese are jealous and hate their Japanese bosses. There's really no need to go there and emphasize that African Americans were disenfranchised, earn less, etc.
If we go there - then does everyone in the world ask the Jewish population for reparations due to banking atrocities? Read up on WWI and WWII history - turns out some of the weapons dealers and bankers for both sides (even the Nazis) were Jewish. Weapons dealers during WWII and in the Chinese Civil War were mostly British through Hong Kong. Then do the Chinese ask the British for reparations?

As far as the socks/clothes - once again, its not the symbol. I don't care about the message. I only care what it implies to the basics of society. The only reason you and I can drive and walk down the streets without fear of being robbed/kicked/assaulted every day/minute/second is that everyone accepts manners and civility. Once you destroy that agreement (which is what Kaepernick did), all bets are off (hence, the orchestrated riots across America right now).
You do realize that a significant percentage of businesses being destroyed and looted in the US are black owned? Because the riots are in dense urban areas that tend to be heavy in African American/Hispanic demographics.
Would you consider this an act of forgiveness then? How does the conduct of Kaepernick help "white guilt"?

A business owner/corporation will not hire someone who flouts rules. Kaepernick went too far with his method. Sure, he has the freedom of speech to do so, but don't forget - the NFL owners have the freedom to exercise their right to say Kaepernick is an unruly employee, a ticking time bomb in PR disasters, so they don't have to hire him to play for them.
All that you see are orchestrated by the liberal media. White shaming. This is slowly moving into Holocaust territory. Look at what happened to South Africa. That is the result of what you are advocating in "white guilt". At some point, all white people will be afraid of walking down Hollywood Blvd. here in Los Angeles for fear of being assaulted (which they are now....).

********************
Let me give you a small meaningless, but very poignant true story, this happened in Los Angeles, to a Caucasian friend of mine pretty recently. Before the current events though.

His kid is in first grade in elementary school. The kid's best play friend "was" an African American. They were innocent and had no notion of skin color
or history. Even the parents were good friends because of their friendship.

Well, this being liberal Los Angeles, the first grade teacher decided, just like you, it is time to give a lesson on white guilt and African American history. Guess what, after the class, the African American kid (first grade emphasis) dumped his best friend and told him "you need to apologize to me".
This was a shock to the teacher, and both parents also heard what happened. As this is a well-educated neighborhood, the African-American parents were severely embarrassed about it, apologized. My friend said there's nothing to apologize for, but at this point we can only teach our kids.
Well, an innocent friendship destroyed, the parents are trying hard to get the kids to forget the incident somehow. Oh, and by the way, one note - the
African American kid mentioned Kaepernick and asked why can't he do the same thing... shout "Fxxk white people" in the open, at school.... :eek:

His parents told my friend that they were super lucky the kid said that in their home. They are having an extremely hard time trying to explain to their first-grade kid why civility matters. The current situation doesn't help either.
**********************

My main point is... at some point, the cycle of guilt or violence has to stop. We only need to recognize history and learn its lessons, not keep reliving it over and over again.

And civility is critical to society. We can all agree to disagree. But when we start assaulting, shaming, calling names just because we "hate", "disgust", etc. - at that point you lose the ability to live in peace.

Once again, thank you for this conversation. It is eye opening how liberal media has permeated and destroy the fabric of society itself, by tearing away civility.
 

Tania

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Thanks for your response.

I think we have a misunderstanding here on all points, but that's ok, cultural norms and translations tend to create such gaps.

I am not advocating for "erasing" history, or "downplaying" it. I understand the horrors of the Holocaust, not personally but from anecdotes and live seminars given by survivors. A major note here - the Holocaust survivors I met/heard from all advocate recognition of the situation.
They are not asking for apologies. They are asking for the world to understand the lessons of the Holocaust and not to repeat it ever again. Some even understand why a lot of people think its a hoax. They respond it with kindness - we can only keep educating and help the world understand the critical lessons - the idea of a free world is that there will always be disagreements and people who don't accept the truth. That is the beauty of free speech, freedom of religion, and freedom from unjust persecution. Hence the Magna Carta, US Constitution.

What I meant is, aside from the annual remembrance events (ex. Armenian genocide, D-Day, Armistice day, July 4, etc.), do we really have to keep reminding people of the trauma? At the same time, I understand what you mean by "ancestor guilt", but again, at what point do you stop? Do you want to keep reminding new generations of such atrocities that were committed hundreds of years ago and create new animosities that were never there in the first place?

The point of history lessons is to take critical themes, learn from them, and avoid future mistakes.
I do not believe that history is there for us to keep reliving it.

The same thing happens every year in Asia (Japan's Yasukuni shrine). Every year Japan has a memorial service for their war dead (Memorial Day in US is the same), yet every country in Asia always get mad that time of the year, and ask for reparations. China has Nanjing massacre. Same thing happens.

There's a fine line between (remembering and recognizing history), and (embracing and internalizing history). If every Caucasian keeps apologizing to every African American every day, does that make it any less painful? All it does is cause more pain by creating new revenge motives.

I have seen this happen all over Asia. Every year. Some youth calls up history, gets riled up, and attack civilians. China against Japan. Vietnam against China (yes, invasions from hundreds of years ago, and the same logic you make), Taiwan against China (same thing different intensity), Korea against China (oh, the vitriol matches China-Japan)... And almost all victims are hapless tourists or foreigners who are trying hard to make a living in another country (ex. a Japanese in China, Chinese businessmen in Vietnam). You don't see it in western media because those are local trifles, not international news.

As far as economic inequality - sorry, same thing happens all over the world. African Americans are no less disenfranchised as other groups in other countries.
Vietnamese are always jealous of their Chinese bosses. Chinese are jealous and hate their Japanese bosses. There's really no need to go there and emphasize that African Americans were disenfranchised, earn less, etc.
If we go there - then does everyone in the world ask the Jewish population for reparations due to banking atrocities? Read up on WWI and WWII history - turns out some of the weapons dealers and bankers for both sides (even the Nazis) were Jewish. Weapons dealers during WWII and in the Chinese Civil War were mostly British through Hong Kong. Then do the Chinese ask the British for reparations?

As far as the socks/clothes - once again, its not the symbol. I don't care about the message. I only care what it implies to the basics of society. The only reason you and I can drive and walk down the streets without fear of being robbed/kicked/assaulted every day/minute/second is that everyone accepts manners and civility. Once you destroy that agreement (which is what Kaepernick did), all bets are off (hence, the orchestrated riots across America right now).
You do realize that a significant percentage of businesses being destroyed and looted in the US are black owned? Because the riots are in dense urban areas that tend to be heavy in African American/Hispanic demographics.
Would you consider this an act of forgiveness then? How does the conduct of Kaepernick help "white guilt"?

A business owner/corporation will not hire someone who flouts rules. Kaepernick went too far with his method. Sure, he has the freedom of speech to do so, but don't forget - the NFL owners have the freedom to exercise their right to say Kaepernick is an unruly employee, a ticking time bomb in PR disasters, so they don't have to hire him to play for them.
All that you see are orchestrated by the liberal media. White shaming. This is slowly moving into Holocaust territory. Look at what happened to South Africa. That is the result of what you are advocating in "white guilt". At some point, all white people will be afraid of walking down Hollywood Blvd. here in Los Angeles for fear of being assaulted (which they are now....).

********************
Let me give you a small meaningless, but very poignant true story, this happened in Los Angeles, to a Caucasian friend of mine pretty recently. Before the current events though.

His kid is in first grade in elementary school. The kid's best play friend "was" an African American. They were innocent and had no notion of skin color
or history. Even the parents were good friends because of their friendship.

Well, this being liberal Los Angeles, the first grade teacher decided, just like you, it is time to give a lesson on white guilt and African American history. Guess what, after the class, the African American kid (first grade emphasis) dumped his best friend and told him "you need to apologize to me".
This was a shock to the teacher, and both parents also heard what happened. As this is a well-educated neighborhood, the African-American parents were severely embarrassed about it, apologized. My friend said there's nothing to apologize for, but at this point we can only teach our kids.
Well, an innocent friendship destroyed, the parents are trying hard to get the kids to forget the incident somehow. Oh, and by the way, one note - the
African American kid mentioned Kaepernick and asked why can't he do the same thing... shout "Fxxk white people" in the open, at school.... :eek:

His parents told my friend that they were super lucky the kid said that in their home. They are having an extremely hard time trying to explain to their first-grade kid why civility matters. The current situation doesn't help either.
**********************

My main point is... at some point, the cycle of guilt or violence has to stop. We only need to recognize history and learn its lessons, not keep reliving it over and over again.

And civility is critical to society. We can all agree to disagree. But when we start assaulting, shaming, calling names just because we "hate", "disgust", etc. - at that point you lose the ability to live in peace.

Once again, thank you for this conversation. It is eye opening how liberal media has permeated and destroy the fabric of society itself, by tearing away civility.
Hi Kevin. I'm not an advocate of reliving history hence my point of African Americans being history less to the point they are creating it now.

I respect your experiences but for every example you come with I can just read that we definetly have a completely different way of creating meaning out of experiences. Like the way you interpret civility - my understanding is civility through history has been referred to much like kids playing a game and only experienceing unfairness when they are loosing.
If you invented the game you can call break. That pause is civility - that pause / break is what the African American community can not get cause they did not make the game - they are regarded as less important on the chess board.
Those black store owners you talk about in Los Angeles - flag down the police for help - then get arrested themselves. "Driving when black " is another example.
We have to look at who made the rules and our lived experiences than help us make decisions on who and what to trust. This goes for the local neighborhood perpetrator, as well as bad cop or gangs.
This trust walking down the street is the privilege many already don't have, and calling the police is not always a safe choice. Many women regardless of color don't have that trust reporting gendered violence.

The game inventors and card dealers are ruling them out of favor, mistrusting them. Many specific groups all over the world experience this - and those in charge benefit from the lack of solidarity. Notoriously people of color has been judged uncivilized. Meanwhile systemic racism and violence perpetrated by supposed civilized people are somehow normalcy.
Perspective can be subjected - we are all blind to something. Perspective much like planning is afforded only by some.
We live the life we're we are and fight for equality where we are. The example with your friends is good, the kid is speaking up and that opens for a conversation - better than being isolated and turn the hatred inwards. Being able to express yourself is the key as I think we agree on .Great the kids have good people around them. There will always be examples of people experiencing these things - again the difference is who has had the authority to shut down someone else's experience - or the truth or in this case with Floyd - the last words.
I experience quite often someone explaining thruths to me - that is purely a worldview of theirs - mostly men - yet I am fathered by a man and I married one - so I understand this is not all men but I also stand and work with women for us to help eachother voice our experiences good and bad of the world we live in as I think this will further harmony.
So yes I too believe in collaboration - and I do believe we need a start over- I hope we can all do our work individually to establish a willingness to part with some privilege. Me included.
 

Tania

Involved Wayfarer
Jul 30, 2016
139
311
Tania, you obviously feel deeply and are very knowledgeable.

Because the nature of this forum is spiritual, I think this is the best place where we can express our multi-dimensionality - and layers and layers of lives - meaning we are the descendants and we are the ancestors. I know this way of thinking is perhaps a step too far for those living either in apathy or in suffering. I, for one, have had my eyes opened to the living conditions of our First People, as I have actually been on to Missions - something many Australians cannot say they have. The point is, do they even care? Government periodically says an apology, and I think it stems from the right place. But they are only there to guide. The real compassion has to well up in the hearts of the average majority, for really heart-felt apology and making amends. The trouble is, people living in their cushy, white playgrounds don't feel ownership of the problem. They don't think they are their own ancestors.

This is all about expansion and growth and maturity. The number of white people protesting shows that there is a groundswell in the majority, in that their hearts are touched and they feel compassion for what was obviously a blatant crime against another human being, all nuanced, of course. While the opportunists grab the headlines, it is what is going on in the hearts of average people, all colours of the spectrum, that can change the status quo and the stuck polarities.

Something I also owe to the awakening ones who have written books is the knowledge of the cycles of time. Our written history doesn't go back much further than the beginning of the Piscean Age. Those quarters of Ages (500-year blocks) have a magnetic imprint. The Dark Ages (that 500 years we call 500AD to about 1,000 AD) were probably the lowest ebb of the cycle, with the Renaissance (bringing the world back to light) in that block of time from about 1400 AD onward. And now we are right in the funnel of time where something new can be brought forward.

If you have knowledge of ancient kingdoms in Africa, I invite you to write a thread for the Ancient Civilisations board, as that is a whole area we haven't touched on yet. I know Graham Hancock has researched some of this in Ethiopia and Eritrea, and there is the whole area of what the Sahara lands were like before desertification - northern Sudan and all that. PM me if you have any ideas that you'd really like to explore.
I'm sorry I wrote a long answer then posted it twice then deleted one then both disappeared. Above I wrote Kevin which also took balanced energy as Kevin and I both care but have differences.
So - thank you for taking your time to reply. Denmark colonized Greenland so we have our own unacknowledged shame. Many young native Inuit people are standing up and voicing they struggle through music and writing now - rap too :)
In Denmark people of color and the indigenous are standing together. However trauma coupled with trauma also makes for some difficult situations, I understand the long indifference from ethnic Danes ( horrible terminology here) makes us all not trust worthy despite many of us doing something to facilitate. This is often seen in a world of branding as a personal gain much like Kevin related the story of Richard Gere - like affiliation will make you seem better somehow. No one would ever guess my experiences from appearance - with age it doesn't matter. I try to have a sense of humor, and be clear where I stand - often random people thank me for the clarity - which shows me how much of a struggle it must be to trust.
My knowledge of Ancient civilization is not great but I did live surrounded by a Afro centric community that taught me much about health and spirituality as an alternative to commercial culture and junk - dunking donuts, Crispy Creme etc. but I will share if I come across something great - often most things have a light and shadow side much like religion.
Maybe I will pm you something when I get the chance.
Thanks to you and to Kevin for the dialog.
 

Kevin C

Involved Wayfarer
Jul 27, 2016
289
844
SoCal
Hi Kevin. I'm not an advocate of reliving history hence my point of African Americans being history less to the point they are creating it now.

I respect your experiences but for every example you come with I can just read that we definetly have a completely different way of creating meaning out of experiences. Like the way you interpret civility - my understanding is civility through history has been referred to much like kids playing a game and only experienceing unfairness when they are loosing.
If you invented the game you can call break. That pause is civility - that pause / break is what the African American community can not get cause they did not make the game - they are regarded as less important on the chess board.
Those black store owners you talk about in Los Angeles - flag down the police for help - then get arrested themselves. "Driving when black " is another example.
We have to look at who made the rules and our lived experiences than help us make decisions on who and what to trust. This goes for the local neighborhood perpetrator, as well as bad cop or gangs.
This trust walking down the street is the privilege many already don't have, and calling the police is not always a safe choice. Many women regardless of color don't have that trust reporting gendered violence.

The game inventors and card dealers are ruling them out of favor, mistrusting them. Many specific groups all over the world experience this - and those in charge benefit from the lack of solidarity. Notoriously people of color has been judged uncivilized. Meanwhile systemic racism and violence perpetrated by supposed civilized people are somehow normalcy.
Perspective can be subjected - we are all blind to something. Perspective much like planning is afforded only by some.
We live the life we're we are and fight for equality where we are. The example with your friends is good, the kid is speaking up and that opens for a conversation - better than being isolated and turn the hatred inwards. Being able to express yourself is the key as I think we agree on .Great the kids have good people around them. There will always be examples of people experiencing these things - again the difference is who has had the authority to shut down someone else's experience - or the truth or in this case with Floyd - the last words.
I experience quite often someone explaining thruths to me - that is purely a worldview of theirs - mostly men - yet I am fathered by a man and I married one - so I understand this is not all men but I also stand and work with women for us to help eachother voice our experiences good and bad of the world we live in as I think this will further harmony.
So yes I too believe in collaboration - and I do believe we need a start over- I hope we can all do our work individually to establish a willingness to part with some privilege. Me included.
Thank you for continuing. I know this is a very sensitive topic.
I think I am beginning to understand your point of view. It is the same point of view as the NYC mayor, who is letting violence run amok, and most Democrats, including LA mayor who lost control of the city as well and finally pleaded for the National Guard.

I live in LA metro. I am well aware of what you are saying - african americans are still getting "unfairly" arrested for helping businesses.
But you are pointing to the wrong lessons here.

In this case (and across the US), I empathize with the police and National Guard.

Again, please separate the peaceful protest areas from the looting, damaging, dangerous riots. Do not put the two together.
Here in LA metro, the police are not arresting african americans in peaceful protest areas.

Here's the problem - with ANTIFA, rioters, looters, and protesters - they have turned certain areas in WAR zones.
WAR zones are violent, volatile, and unpredictable. The police are facing life-threatening situations every second in the war zone.
The majority of these areas have big african american populations. The entire protesting group as a whole is predominantly african american.
Now, police and soldiers are tasked with maintaining not just law and order, but protecting businesses and property.

In a war zone, the police and soldiers do not have the time to distinguish between a business owner, a reporter, a peaceful protester, a good Samaritan. They have to make split-second life-death situations. What you are reporting and "seeing" is what Los Angeles's and Hollywood's liberal media conditioning you to see - police are always making racist decisions no matter what. Its the camera lens.

The only way to do that in a war zone is to regard everyone as an enemy - arrest them and ask questions later. That includes the unfortunate
arrest of the african american CNN reporter.
The main point - these are WAR zones now, violence is certain, death could come to police while enforcing law and order. At this point,
the police and National Guard have to do their jobs.
In fact, you did notice that, buried in the news, on some corners in LA, where there are peaceful protests, the police and the National Guard knelt down in solidarity and hugged it out with the protesters? I'm not sure they are showing that internationally though.

These are the two faces you need to see. It is not all one-sided negative. Everything that's happening has a logic and reason -
it is not all racism related.

Let me put it this way - you can't paint all law enforcement as "racist" and "violent" in one broad stroke (the way liberal media and Democrats in USA do), then tell me you will call law enforcement if you get assaulted, robbed, or your house is broken in. That is exactly what is happening on social media to a lot of liberal virtue signaling celebrities/icons/politicians. Look at Oakland, Chicago, Baltimore, downtown LA, SF, NYC. They have gone out of control generally speaking. Businesses that were already struggling due to the pandemic will now have to close permanently. These cities are about to go into financial abyss beyond bankruptcy because of this.

As far as the children story example - I thought being on this spiritual forum, you'd understand that the best way to educate a new generation is to make them understand there is no difference. Instead, you are promoting that children under 18 need to be taught essentially "white hate". As I emphasized in that post, the black couple is horrified, not the other way around. The black couple was trying to raise their child in a color-free environment - to accept all colors as equal, being color blind - now they have to figure out how to deprogram him from potentially becoming another militant black who will always call white people out for "white power", in broad stroke. And figure out a way to bringing good friends together again. Reverse racism.

As far as women are concerned, yes, I sympathize with women's struggles. But compared to Asia, India, Middle East, women have it relatively easy in general in US and Europe.
I respect women's rights, but there's a point where, just like above in the children's "reverse racism" example, there's a line that needs to be drawn to maintain civility. You are aware that in US, because of the MeToo movement, as a whole, there are fewer promotions and job offers to women in corporations? Are you also aware that it decimated the modeling industry, as well as opportunities for new aspiring actresses in Hollywood?
Let's not mention the dating scene too - in general men are now scared to approach women due to the MeToo movement - same reasons as corporations, potential legal liability.
A lot of women in LA metro are complaining and regretting joining the MeToo movement for all these reasons, but for political reasons, you will never see this in liberal media.

This is before everything that happened this year.

Again, please understand - I am not downplaying racism, now downplaying women's rights either. I agree with you they exist. I live in LA metro. I see them everyday - media or in real life. Hispanics, Blacks, Asians, India, etc. - racism as a whole.

My problem is the approach. Do we keep screaming, shaming, labeling, shouting about the injustices at the top of our lungs all day long, or do we move forward in a constructive manner and figure out what to do in the future to minimize situations while understanding there will always be bad apples, or rotten people?

It is OK, we can agree to disagree here. I respect and empathize with your point of view.

The conversation you and I are having here is exactly the same as the ones I'm having here in LA and the state of CA as a whole with my liberal friends, acquaintances, family, and colleagues. Unfortunately, all of them are so conditioned by the liberal media - ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, WaPo, NYTimes, AP, Gartner, The Guardian, LA Times, SF Chronicle, etc. - that just like you, they all emphasize "white hate", "white guilt", "women's rights", "blatant racism in broad strokes across society", over and over, all day long.

And in the US, the silent majority are beginning to get tired of the constant negative messaging and shaming. They are tuning out the liberal media and most protest messagings. And they come from all walks of life - blacks, asians, caucasians, hispanics, muslim, arab, india, etc. In my neighborhood, we have a mixed pot - all of them represented. And every single one of them (homeowners, well educated, etc.) all agree that things are too extreme now. MeToo backfired for them - way too extreme. The current protests they all agree with the message of racism, but not with the method - again, too much anger, violence, chaos. There was a local protest - a few joined it to show support. Most did not for fear of safety and security. It was peaceful, even the local police knelt with them. This is what needs to be emphasized more, rather than what liberal media keeps showing - violence, injustices, lootings, etc. - in broad stroke.

Again, thank you for this conversation. I'm glad we can converse in a civil manner, and you taught me a lot about what's happening in Europe as well.
Hopefully things are good and safe with you!
 

Bert

Involved Wayfarer
Jan 10, 2019
142
372
Belgium
My problem is the approach. Do we keep screaming, shaming, labeling, shouting about the injustices at the top of our lungs all day long, or do we move forward in a constructive manner and figure out what to do in the future to minimize situations while understanding there will always be bad apples, or rotten people?
THIS is the main thing people need to understand!

By the way: I understand both of you and Tania's view points and want to add the following:
If you look at history EVERYBODY has their trauma's, also the white people.
in school they teach us history viewed from the winners side which is white nobility and katholic and they put this as an achievement.
In reality White Europe also had the inquisition, suppression by war lords, lots of internal wars,... and in all conflicts the regular people were the victim.
Most people just don't realise this as they were only tought the fairy tale and don't think for themselves.
Our European history of natural healing, druidery is just a 100 years old as everything was destroyed by the inquisition. It is impossible to know what is make belief and correct.

I think we need to progress from seeing us a a victim from other groups of regular people to seeing us as a victim from the system that was/is in place and pull together to live together in harmony and refuse to give power to bad systems.
 

Kevin C

Involved Wayfarer
Jul 27, 2016
289
844
SoCal
THIS is the main thing people need to understand!

By the way: I understand both of you and Tania's view points and want to add the following:
If you look at history EVERYBODY has their trauma's, also the white people.
in school they teach us history viewed from the winners side which is white nobility and katholic and they put this as an achievement.
In reality White Europe also had the inquisition, suppression by war lords, lots of internal wars,... and in all conflicts the regular people were the victim.
Most people just don't realise this as they were only tought the fairy tale and don't think for themselves.
Our European history of natural healing, druidery is just a 100 years old as everything was destroyed by the inquisition. It is impossible to know what is make belief and correct.

I think we need to progress from seeing us a a victim from other groups of regular people to seeing us as a victim from the system that was/is in place and pull together to live together in harmony and refuse to give power to bad systems.
Seems the BLM protests and blatant disregard for civility has spread to Europe - especially amongst the north African refugee populations.
Please stay safe!

Bert, that is exactly what I mentioned in a earlier post on Monday. Europe has its own grievance issues that are so complex I don't even know where or when to start....

post #17 above - Monday - relevant reposted section
******************
Here's the problem. If we ask for reparations for slavery and white power in American history, when is it going to stop? What about the American Indians who were ravaged? What about the Chinese who were used as indentured servants during the California Gold Rush days? What about the Japanese Americans who were unlawfully detained during World War II? What about Americans who were harassed during the Communist blacklist days of J. Edgar Hoover?
Now let's go to Europe. There's a treasure trove of these grievances, since so many countries invaded each other all over Europe throughout history.
Are the rest of Europe going to ask England for reparations due to William the Conqueror? Same for Alexander of Greece. Same with the Romans.
The Hapsburg Empire. How about all of Europe destroyed during Nazi days, not to mention slave labor for their war machine?

See where I'm getting at? History is.... history. There is nothing we can do to change it. Asking for reparations (correction) of history by going overboard on the other side is too much.
******************

Not to mention the Middle Ages and the Black Plague periods - we do not know how much history, artifacts, engineering and medicinal knowledge was destroyed. The same with dynasties in China - history is always written by the winners.

Based on some QHHT sessions, there's a lot of shamanic magic knowledge from the druids period that was lost. That includes natural healing using ley lines (Stonehedge lies on them).
 
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