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"The Source of a Lost Civilisation"

Hailstones Melt

Realized Sentience
Staff member
Board Moderator
#1
"There is a very good chance that we owe our civilisation to the Denisovans."

These quotes are from the interview posted below with Andrew Collins. He is the author of The Cygnus Key (a book I have purchased and look forward to reading from cover to cover). He is investigating a possible hominid link from about 200,000 years ago that may have had modern human hybrid descendants 11,600 years ago - approximately the time that Gobekli Tepe's in-ground installations were hollowed out. The more ancient Denisovans were about 7 feet tall, and had much more than rudimentary paleolithic culture. Apparently, they could drill as well as we can with modern drills, but without the electricity. It is hypothesized that their drill/machine was run by the power of water. They had bone needles for stitching clothes together, and other tools.

There have been remains found in Siberia, and Collins traces a link through to Anatolia, south-eastern Turkey where Gobekli Tepe is found on top of a hill. The video is 58 mins 22 secs and I think well worth the time taken. Andrew Collins is not the only researcher in this field - he mentions that Graham Hancock is currently on field trips into Siberia and writing a book about the same subject. Both of these authors/researchers have written books and pulled a lot of hidden or occulted information into the light of modern times, and are starting to create a much more of a bigger overview of ancestral beings who were right at home here on Earth hundreds of thousands of years ago.

This interview also gives a interesting "3rd option" to ancient history scenarios, other than Atlantis and visiting alien races, which is where alternative thinkers generally end up when chasing these tendrils of thoughts. As Collins points out, this 3rd option doesn't end in a cul-de-sac.



As a follow-up, Andrew Collins has promised a new book, featuring the movement of the ancient, giant race (whom he is calling the Denisovans) into North America, who went on to become famous as the mound builders and known as the Thunderbirds. There's also a line of thought that hominids of this type moved through parts of South East Asia (Indonesia today), Australia, and across to South America. Given the finds in Antarctica (and what Cliff High has promised to show when his source has passed on, a photo of 2 pyramids in Antarctica, one with an 80 foot doorway, and a staircase with very large treads between the steps), they may have bunny-hopped around the world that way.

From Andrew Collins's website: www.andrewcollins.com:

During their final years the Denisovans achieved an advanced level of human behaviour, including the creation of sophisticated symbolic or non-functional objects including an arm bracelet in bottle-green chloritolite with a bored hole that can only have been made using a high-speed drill; a bone needle with an eye for thread, suggesting the manufacture of tailored clothing, as well as finely finished, pierced ostrich eggshell beads no more than a centimetre in diameter. In addition to this, fragments of horse bones found inside the Denisova Cave have suggested that Denisovans domesticated, herded and maybe even rode horses long before it was thought humanly possible. So who exactly were the Denisovans? What do we really know about them, and how are they linked to Neanderthals and our own ancestors?

I feel excited to know that we are in right at the very start of this new trend of knowledge, that could blow older conjecture right out of the ballpark.
 
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Hailstones Melt

Hailstones Melt

Realized Sentience
Staff member
Board Moderator
#2
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/02files/Ooparts_Green_Bracelet.html

At this website, you can read in detail about some of the archaeological finds in the Altai mountains, Russia. The area is very close to Kazakhstan and Mongolia.

The cave has been named the Denisova Cave, and there the fragment of green stone bracelet was found, as well as a molar (now known as the Denisova Molar). Also, a finger bone was found there of a female, believed Denisovan because of the DNA. This cave was also inhabited by Neanderthals and modern humans at different times, so the archaelogists have to be very careful about dating and DNA evaluation of the finds.

untitled (2).png Green_003.jpg untitled (3).png
'The bracelet is stunning - in bright sunlight it reflects the sun rays, at night by the fire it casts a deep shade of green,' said Anatoly Derevyanko, Director of the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography in Novosibirsk, part of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences
http://siberiantimes.com/science/ca...e-bracelet-is-oldest-ever-found-in-the-world/


Denisova_Molar.jpg

Green_006.png
Apparently, the molar was discovered in 2000, and analysis was done in 2010.

Denisova_001.jpg
th.jpg inside_cave_close.jpg
denisova11.jpg
http://siberiantimes.com/science/ca...s-them-occupying-altai-cave-170000-years-ago/

who-are-the-denisovans-and-how-does-their-discovery-alter-our-view-of-human-evolution.jpg
http://www.justscience.in/articles/denisovans-discovery-alter-view-human-evolution/2018/01/09
This article has a section "The changed view of human evolution". The Altai find in 2008 (finger bone) and the green stone bracelet fragment are causing people to reconsider their versions of history.

THE CHANGED VIEW OF HUMAN EVOLUTION
Earlier, it was believed that Homo Sapiens has evolved from Homo Erectus around 2,00,000 years ago in East Africa. From there, the humans had spread to Europe and rest of the world.

However, with the recent discoveries regarding Denisovans and Neanderthals, the date for human origin has shifted back to 3,00,000 (sic) years ago. In the 1960s, few miners found fossils and stone tools that were pegged to be 40,000 years old. However, when the specimens were analysed recently by using thermoluminescence, they were found to be 300,000 years old.

Scientists also discovered that the fossils were not modern humans but other closely related species. The brain was less developed and there were differences in DNA. This gave evidence for the evolution of brain with age. The ancestors interbred and spread their genes, leading to genetic diversity.


Spread_and_evolution_of_Denisovans.jpg

This map of proposed migration patterns is from: https://www.zmescience.com/science/anthropology/denisovan-melanesia-neanderthal-dna-20032016/ (extract below is less than 50%)

The relationship between ancient humans and Neanderthals was proven to be much more intricate than previously believed. It was first shown that humans interbred with Neanderthals 50,000 years ago, then 100,000 years ago, and now, a new study found that people from a Pacific Island hold substantial amounts of not only Neanderthal, but also Denisovan DNA.

Melanesia is possibly the only place in the world with substantial amounts of Denisovan DNA.

Denisovans are an extinct species of human in the genus Homo. In March 2010, scientists announced the discovery of a finger bone fragment of a juvenile female who lived about 41,000 years ago, found in the remote Denisova Cave in the Altai Mountains in Siberia, a cave which has also been inhabited by Neanderthals and modern humans. DNA studies confirmed this was a new species, related to Neanderthals but ultimately different. However, while Neanderthal DNA is common in most non-African humans, Denisovan DNA is much more elusive. There is a notable exception however: the inhabitants of Melanesia, a subregion of Oceania, have between 4% and 6% Denisovan DNA.

This is curious for two reasons. First of all, it’s an isolated population on relatively inaccessible islands. Second of all, it’s really far from the Altai Mountains in Siberia, where researchers believe Denisovans stem from.
“Denisovans are the only species of archaic humans about whom we know less from fossil evidence and more from where their genes show up in modern humans,” said Joshua Akey of the University of Washington, who co-led the study.
 
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Hailstones Melt

Hailstones Melt

Realized Sentience
Staff member
Board Moderator
#3
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan

The Denisovan or Denisova hominin ( /dɪˈniːsəvə/ di-NEE-sə-və) is an extinct species or subspecies of archaic humans in the genus Homo. Pending its status as either species or subspecies it currently carries the temporary names Homo sp. Altai,[1] or Homo sapiens ssp. Denisova.[2][3] In March 2010, scientists announced the discovery of a finger bone fragment of a juvenile female who lived about 41,000 years ago, found in the remote Denisova Cave in the Altai Mountains in Siberia, a cave that has also been inhabited by Neanderthals and modern humans.[4][5][6] The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of the finger bone showed it to be genetically distinct from Neanderthals and modern humans.[7] The nuclear genome from this specimen suggested that Denisovans shared a common origin with Neanderthals, that they ranged from Siberia to Southeast Asia, and that they lived among and interbred with the ancestors of some modern humans,[8] with about 3% to 5% of the DNA of Melanesians and Aboriginal Australians deriving from Denisovans.[9][10][11]

From: https://www.livescience.com/22836-genome-extinct-humans-denisovans.html

To make the most of what little genetic material they had, the researchers developed a technique that unzipped the double strands of DNA in the bone, doubling the amount of DNA they could analyze. This enabled them to sequence each position in the genome about 30 times over, generating an extremely thorough genome sequence.
 
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Hailstones Melt

Hailstones Melt

Realized Sentience
Staff member
Board Moderator
#4
Andrew Collins' new book, The Cygnus Key, has a preface with a bit of imagined (fictional) writing which might help us to open our minds to a past we have never considered.

This is published on his website www.andrewcollins.com, as part of his preview/introduction for the book.

Last of the Denisovans

The Preface to Andrew Collins' new book The Cygnus Key,
complete with a comprehensive preview of its extraordinary findings regarding the origins of civilization
This is the preface to my new book The Cygnus Key: The Denisovan Legacy, Göbekli Tepe, and the Birth of Egypt. It was inspired by an image that appeared (and used here alongside this webpage) in a National Geographic Magazine feature on the extinct hominin species known as Denisovans titled “The Case of the Missing Ancestor,” written by Jamie Shreeve and published in 2013. [Note: that image is copywrited, so not shown here] It shows the hypothetical first meeting between our own modern human ancestors (Homo sapiens) and surviving Denisovans, somewhere in either central or eastern Eurasia. I pondered over this image long and hard, and finally came up with the following scenario, which although fictional, might be how it went down some 45,000 years ago ...

The date is approximately 45,000 years ago; the location, a mountain pass somewhere in the Altai-Sayan region of southern Siberia. From a rocky vantage point, four tall, darkened forms emerge into view from behind a patch of cold early-morning mist. They stand a few meters apart, gazing toward the only path permitting access to the mountain’s central plateau.

Each figure is of extraordinary size, being as much as 7 feet (2.15 meters) in height. Their stature is that of giant wrestlers, their enormous frames accentuated by broad shoulders and streams of furs that immerse their bodies from head to feet. Their heads also are of incredible size, being both long and broad, with large, powerful jaws. What little can be seen of their exposed skin suggests it is brown; their long, matted hair dark also. Adding to the almost alien appearance of these strange individuals are their extremely large noses and unusual eyes, which have striking black pupils and irises so pale they seem almost white. Completing the picture are the long, dark feathers attached to their furs, which blow about in the gentle breeze that has followed the first light of day.

They are Denisovans, members of an archaic human population whose very existence had gone unrecognized until the first decade of the twenty-first century, when oversized fossil remains were discovered in a large cave in the Altai Mountains of southern Siberia.

The purpose of these four figures at the head of this rocky pass is to await the arrival of others—a new people from a distant land located in the direction of the setting sun. In small groups these people have been approaching ever nearer to the Denisovans’ mountain retreats, and now, finally, they were within sight, moving slowly toward the Denisovans’s elevated position. These intruders were shorter and more slightly built, their heads smaller and more elongated. Furthermore, their approach to life seemed quite different. They enter new territories, assume control of them, and exploit their natural resources before dispatching some of their growing number in pursuit of even more suitable places of occupation. They have been advancing in this manner for many thousand years, encountering and even interbreeding with the Old People of the West, who will one day become known as Neanderthals. For countless millennia the Old People have occupied vast swaths of the western Eurasian continent, while the Denisovans have been content to remain in the eastern part of the continent.

Now, finally, the New People had arrived in the Altai-Sayan region, and were about to encounter a small group of Denisovans for the very first time. Their advance party was perhaps ten to twelve in number. They too wore furs to combat the colder climate found at these higher altitudes, and in the hands of some of them were long wooden spears. One, the leader of the group, was brandishing his weapon in a provocative manner, as if ready to attack at the first sign of aggression from the tall strangers.

Yet the Denisovans say and do nothing. They simply stand their ground, gazing down at the intruders, who are now shuffling to a halt no more than 15 meters away.

The leader of the New People seems unsure what to do. Should they advance further and strike out at these people who look like tree trunks? Why did they not attack? More pressingly, why did they not carry weapons? What strange magic was this? Were they powerful shamans who did not need weapons? Could they kill simply by making eye contact? Could they send out spirits to torment the families of intruders?

The Denisovans were indeed powerful shamans. They knew that any confusion or uncertainty in the minds of the New People would cause them to question their actions. What is more, the plan was working. They approached no further. A few final thrusts into the air of the leader’s spear did nothing to prompt a response from the Denisovans, who simply stood their ground, unfazed by what was unfolding in front of them.
Unnerved and fearful of their enemy’s powerful magic, the New People all at once turn around and retreat back down the mountain pass and out of sight. The Denisovans have won the day. Yet they know full well that eventually the New People will return, this time in much greater numbers. Eventually the intruders will overrun the Denisovans’ world, spelling an end to their population. It might take a few decades, a few centuries, or even a few millennia, but it will happen.

In the future the preservation of the Denisovans’ profound ancient wisdom, accumulated across hundreds of generations, will become the property of the New People. It will be through them that the Denisovans will continue to exist. Yet this will not happen through conquest or submission, but through interbreeding. The last of the Denisovans will give way to hybrid descendants, who with an entirely revitalized mind-set will continue to thrive, not just in the Old World, but also in the far-off American continent. Sadly, however, the Denisovans were aware also that for many millennia knowledge of their very existence will be suppressed, belittled, and finally forgotten. Yet one day, as the prophecies determine, they will rise again, their contribution to the genesis of civilization laid bare for all to see. Then, finally, everyone will know the legacy of the Denisovans.

This is an imagined first meeting between anatomically modern humans (Homo sapiens) and the last of the Denisovans (tentatively Homo sapiens altaiensis). It is based on what meager evidence we have regarding their physiology, behavior, genetics, and technological achievements, along with local folklore, which perhaps preserves a memory of their former existence in the region.

Whatever the accuracy behind this all-important encounter between our own ancestors and the Denisovans, the chances are it occurred around 45,000 years ago either in the Altai Mountains, where their fossil remains have been found in the Denisova Cave, the type site of the Denisovans, or a little further north in the western Sayan Mountains. (A type site is a site that is considered to be the model of a particular archaeological culture.) These straddle the republics of Khakassia and Tuva, between which is a narrow strip of land constituting the most southerly part of the Russian province of Krasnoyarsk Krai. Here age-old folk stories speak of the former presence of a giant population that inhabited the nearby Yenisei and Abakan river basins. They recall how these giants created the first stone fortresses (kurgans), the first irrigation channels, the first dams and bridges, and even the first divine melodies played on musical instruments.

The description of these legendary giants best fits what we know about the Denisovans who occupied southern Siberia for hundreds of thousands of years before their disappearance around 40,000 years ago. DNA analysis of many modern populations in East Asia, South Asia, Indonesia, Australia, and even Melanesia and Micronesia, tells us that Denisovans interbred with the earliest modern humans that passed through their territories. More significantly, there is every reason to link the Denisovans with the sudden acceleration in human behavior known to have occurred in southern Siberia between 20,000 and 45,000 years ago. This included the making of some of the first bird-bone flutes anywhere in the world, along with the creation of settled habitation sites, the employment of advanced hunting techniques, the formalizing of tool kits, including the use of microblade technology, and the first sustained appearance of a specialized form of stone-tool production known as pressure flaking.

In addition to this, there is compelling evidence that the earliest human societies to occupy the Altai-Sayan region possessed an extraordinary knowledge of long-term eclipse cycles. Evidence suggests they used a knowledge of these cycles to develop complex, numerically based calendrical systems that would go on to permeate religious cosmologies in many parts of the ancient world. All the indications are that this grand calendrical system, as we shall call it, had its inception in southern Siberia and might well have been inherited from the lost world of the Denisovans. There are also tantalizing clues that the principal creative influence seen as responsible for long-term time cycles and the inaudible sounds once thought to be emitted by the sun, moon, and stars was identified with a cosmic bird symbolized in the night sky by the stars of Cygnus, the celestial swan. Through this association the constellation went on to become guardian of the entrance to the sky world, through which human souls had to pass either to achieve incarnation or enter the afterlife.

In time many of the technological, cultural, and cosmological achievements that appear first in southern Siberia circa 20,000–45,000 years ago, reach the Pre-Pottery Neolithic world of southeast Anatolia and begin to flourish at key cult centers such as Göbekli Tepe. From here they are carried southward through the Levant to northern Egypt. On the banks of the Nile River, as early as 8500–8000 BCE, they find a new home at a site named Helwan, which is today a thriving industrial city immediately south of Cairo. Yet it was here, almost certainly, that the predynastic world of ancient Egypt would begin in earnest, and it would be just across the river, on the plateau at Giza, that the fruits of the Denisovan legacy would finally find manifestation in the greatest and most enigmatic architectural accomplishment of the ancient world—the Great Pyramid, built for the pharaoh Khufu circa 2550 BCE. As we shall see, its underlying geometry, which underpins the entire pyramid field at Giza, displays a profound knowledge of long-term time cycles, numeric systems, and sound acoustics, as well as a polarcentric cosmology featuring the stars of Cygnus. All of this might well have had its origins in southern Siberia as much as 45,000 years ago. Piecing this story together will require some patience. Yet those who persevere will discover not only tantalizing evidence of a lost civilization, but also the true founders of our own.
 

Toller

Illusion Investigator
#6
Is it possible that the Denisovans have a link with Lemuria?

"Lemuria or "Mu" is often referred to as a lost continent in the Pacific. Interestingly, we have long pondered how many managed to find his way across. We know that Patagonia tribes were related to the Australia aboriginal people and the Denisovans managed to impart their DNA on South Pacificers, but how? Should this legend of a lost continent be true, it might explain the "wide ocean" treks in ancient times.

Let's begin with the legend of Lemuria. In fact, the Denisovans might be evidence of this. Here's why - "

http://www.ghosthuntingtheories.com/2015/06/the-lost-continent-of-mu-home-of-giants.html
 

Pod

Realized Sentience
Staff member
Board Moderator
#7
Juicy Toller, just juicy! I lived the first 14 years of my life in the Pacific, going out when I was six months old so I wonder if my soul was drawn to that connection. I was conceived there too.
 
#9
Thoroughly enjoyed the interview and perusing through some of the data. Although his voice is challenging for me I like Andrew Collins's, his work and service to the awakening of expanding of human consciousness. Thank you for posting!

The level of discovery in our contemporary times is exciting to be living through. I look forward to the human collective bringing it all into a cohesive whole. Where what lays beyond our planetary body (and 3D physical experience is no longer being separated. These are at their basis inseparable and a connection between the ideas of extraterrestrial consciousness, Atlantas and what is happening/found in the ground level Earth existence and experience does exist. It all fits together. As I like to say––It is all one, all at once.

Casey
 

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